2000 Challenger MT265 death sentence?

[Half-a-Day Farm]

I've got one of these with coolant showing up in the crankcase. No noticeable smoke. Seems to run fine. Last year I noticed the temp creeping up which was unusual. I added coolant and the temp came right down but it made me suspicious because I could see no coolant leaks. I just did an oil/filter change and caught the oil. Yup. Coolant.

I'm looking through the $200 service /manual/ and have yet to determine if this Iseki E3CD engine (no oil cooler) has a wet sleeve. I am not a mechanic but I see a head gasket, a head, sleeve repair, or back to schlepping around with a wheel barrow and a shovel in my future.

TractorData.com Challenger MT265 tractor information

www.tractordata.com

 

[alexpops]

Sure it's not a parent bore? Southern Global's rebuild kit doesn't show any sleeves, only gaskets/pistons/rings/& bearings.

 

[TractorTech]

I just did some engine work on an MT265 and it is parent bore. I am guessing that you may have a warped or cracked head. The head seems to be pretty stout so probably just a warp.

 

[Half-a-Day Farm]

I just did some engine work on an MT265 and it is parent bore. I am guessing that you may have a warped or cracked head. The head seems to be pretty stout so probably just a warp.

 

[Half-a-Day Farm]

@alexpops and TractorTech, thank you for that. I've got some studying to do, I don't know what a parent bore is. I'd like to fix this thing because it's pretty perfect for what we use it for. I paid 8K for it 3 years ago. It's 4wd and it's got the ML30 FEL on it and it came with a rotary cutter and box blade. It had 450 hours on it when I bought it and only 550 now. What I have to do now is find out exactly what's wrong and how much to fix it. It's pretty stout so a couple grand??? might be worth it. Thanks again.​

 

[alexpops]

Parent bore just means no sleeve. Block is bored & if it gets damaged, you bore the block oversize & compensate with bigger rings (in gas engines) (a different type of sleeve in some cases) or replace the block. Best bet is to pull the head & check with a straight edge for warp then have a machine shop check for cracks. Machine shop can resurface if it's not too bad & an oversized gasket can make up the difference to keep the tolerances the same, otherwise, a new head. If you don't feel up to the task, any diesel mechanic should be able to do the work. You have a shop manual, it should outline R&Ring the head to see if you want to attempt yourself. Keep your parts organized, clean, marked & make sure you have a good torque wrench for reassembly. If you've never torn down & rebuilt an engine before, you may want to farm out the work to someone like tractortech so you don't make the problem worse. With that little time on the clock, you should fix it & with proper maintenance get a lot more years out of it. You'll pay a lot more for a comparable replacement today & won't have the knowledge of past maintenance that you have on this one. The other option is to trade it in or sell it & use the money on a new one with warranty, but then you'll still be paying up the difference & the repair will be cheaper than a new tractor..

 

[Half-a-Day Farm]

I appreciate the advice. There is a CAT dealer not far from me (E. TN) and an MF dealer (I think Massey sold this tractor with red paint). I wouldn't be comfortable doing this myself. An engine rebuild sounds pricey....so I've got some diplomacy to do. My wife was adamant I did NOT need a tractor up until the moment our son got out of the Coast Guard and bought 6 acres adjacent to us. Then she said "why don't you have a tractor".

His cabin is built and we did use the tractor for that project.

edit to add - I thought about selling this one but I don't have it in me to do that WITHOUT disclosing what I know about it. That might be what happened to me.

 

[alexpops]

I appreciate the advice. There is a CAT dealer not far from me (E. TN) and an MF dealer (I think Massey sold this tractor with red paint). I wouldn't be comfortable doing this myself. An engine rebuild sounds pricey....so I've got some diplomacy to do. My wife was adamant I did NOT need a tractor up until the moment our son got out of the Coast Guard and bought 6 acres adjacent to us. Then she said "why don't you have a tractor".

His cabin is built and we did use the tractor for that project.

edit to add - I thought about selling this one but I don't have it in me to do that WITHOUT disclosing what I know about it. That might be what happened to me.

Yeah, the massey dealer may look at it, but you'll be backburnered to their stuff. I would doubt the CAT dealer would let you in the lot except to trade it unless they are dead slow. If you can chat with the actual mechanics, one of them may be willing to do the work as a side job. Your call on how to best deal with the wife/cost issue. Just remember ... virtually everyone on this site (after we're gone) does not want the wives to sell the equipment for what we SAY we have in it.

 

[Half-a-Day Farm]

I just did some engine work on an MT265 and it is parent bore. I am guessing that you may have a warped or cracked head. The head seems to be pretty stout so probably just a warp.

Could I impose on you for another question? Would this be the kit I need for this job?

https://southern-global.com/shop/engine-parts/engine-kit/re-ring-kit-rrk-e3cd/

 

[TractorTech]

That kit would work, but that is for rebuilding the engine. You need at least the head gasket and valve cover gasket, but here is the kit for the head

Upper Gasket Set, UGS-E3CD

Upper Gasket Set, UGS-E3CD, Massey Ferguson 1235, 1250, 1260, 1433, 1440, 1529, 1531, 1532, 1533, 1540, ZT33, Agco ST35, ST35H, ST35X, ST40, ST40H...

southern-global.com

 

[Half-a-Day Farm]

That kit would work, but that is for rebuilding the engine. You need at least the head gasket and valve cover gasket, but here is the kit for the head

Upper Gasket Set, UGS-E3CD

Upper Gasket Set, UGS-E3CD, Massey Ferguson 1235, 1250, 1260, 1433, 1440, 1529, 1531, 1532, 1533, 1540, ZT33, Agco ST35, ST35H, ST35X, ST40, ST40H...

southern-global.com

Beautiful, thank you. We're in the process of building a garage so we'll have a place to work. I think my son and I might take a (very careful) crack at this and we have a friendly neighbor who seems to have every type of tractor and tool under the sun. I'm sure he'll keep an eye on us. Once the head is off I'll have to take it to a machine shop to check for a warp?

Last year when it briefly ran higher temp than normal, I added coolant AND changed the oil but didn't catch it to examine...but was suspicious. Since then and a week ago when I changed oil and caught it (not overheating but coolant was low again) I ran it for ten hours, light duty, and got away with it. Unless you guys say I'm mental I'm going to use it a little bit and carefully watch the TEMP before I get to this.

 

[alexpops]

How much coolant did you lose? & how much did you pull out with the oil? Don't turn a minor problem into a major one by flooding the crankcase with coolant & soaking the journals in antifreeze or severely overheating the engine. Diesel tolerances are a lot tighter than gas engines, pressures are higher & parts are more expensive.

 

[Half-a-Day Farm]

How much coolant did you lose? & how much did you pull out with the oil? Don't turn a minor problem into a major one by flooding the crankcase with coolant & soaking the journals in antifreeze or severely overheating the engine. Diesel tolerances are a lot tighter than gas engines, pressures are higher & parts are more expensive.

I think since last year I've added maybe a half gallon of coolant and when I changed the oil last week it measure a half inch over the line. I didn't catch all the oil...maybe a half gallon in a clear jar for inspection...as soon as I pulled the drain plug and that container is about 1/3 antifreeze and 2/3 oil.

 

[alexpops]

Any oil in the radiator or overflow tank? I wouldn't run my tractor until I fixed it, but that's me. You risk water/coolant displacing oil in your bearings & damaging the crank or cam or the leak getting worse & hydrolocking a piston if the leak is into the cylinder & washing past your pistons -- not to mention the opportunity of destroying rods, pistons, the rings and block. I'd open her up & look to get to the bottom of the problem asap.

I don't know that specific tractor/engine, so maybe Tractortech sees it different after working on one. I'm just talking general engine issues.

 

[TractorTech]

I agree with Alex pops. Was the oil milky colored, indicating that the oil has mixed with the water? If it didn't, you risk doing so running it longer in this condition.
Do not muck up the engine with water. You will have to flush the crank and oil passages with diesel to clear out the contaminated oil.

 

[TractorTech]

Just wanted to share this site from Europe. This is where I got all the specs to do the engine I worked on. The bottom of this page talks about a turbo version of this engine with a cracked head.

Iseki with problems - Tightening torque of head bolts E3112, E3CD, E3CF

Iseki tightening torque for the Iseki E3CD, E3112, E3100, E3CF. Valve clearances for the Iseki engines together with head bolt torques.

shop4trac.com

I know your engine isn't turboed, but your head could have a crack. Some Asian engines are susceptible to cracking. These engines tend to have precombustion chambers and have more galleries to crack when overheated.

Have the machine shop Magnaflux the head to check for cracks along with head warp.

 

[Half-a-Day Farm]

I agree with Alex pops. Was the oil milky colored, indicating that the oil has mixed with the water? If it didn't, you risk doing so running it longer in this condition.
Do not muck up the engine with water. You will have to flush the crank and oil passages with diesel to clear out the contaminated oil.

First I want to say that I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me. The oil doesn't look milky but has a shade of red. There are two drain plugs because there is a shaft that runs down the middle of the oil pan. I pulled the left plug first and quickly put my inspection jar under it and I could see red and it looked watery/red at first, then black. Once that stopped I pulled the right plug and watching it drain it didn't look as red.

I still have the inspection jar and it's clearly separated. Dirty oil on top and reddish fluid on the bottom. After I filled it back with oil I started the engine and ran it for a few minutes to check for leaks and to listen to see if it sounded different and it really didn't. That's the state it's in now, parked, run only a few minutes with fresh oil. It's very difficult to see the fluid level in the tank but I've been checking it closely. I never saw oil in there, just the level dropping so that's where I added antifreeze/distilled water mix.

I do not know if these two fluids can find a way to mingle when it isn't running? What I'm going to do now is see if I can find an independent mechanic in Cumberland County, TN and play is safe and leave it be. My neighbor has his hands full building a house so I'm not going to even mention it to him. I'm a bit confounded because everything I've read about these tractors is they are stout, except for mine with this issue. The only other leak I've got is a few drips every once in a while from the Nimco joystick controller that I understand is common. Thanks again guys.

 

[alexpops]

If you can't find someone local, if you expand the search radius, you shouldn't have a problem finding someone good between Nashville, Knoxville & Chattanooga

 

[Half-a-Day Farm]

If you can't find someone local, if you expand the search radius, you shouldn't have a problem finding someone good between Nashville, Knoxville & Chattanooga

Maybe I'll wake up tomorrow and this is just a bad dream. We've gotten so accustomed to the priceless *privacy* we have here, and the crazy things going on out in the world, we don't even like driving on paved roads. (now I'm just being silly)

 

[alexpops]

LOL ... you need to think like a mechanic. If I'm going to invest in tools, training, diagnostic equipment, I need to be in a high enough volume location to pay for all that. I-75/40/65 will give me more work than East Dead-end Road. I'm with you on preferring to live away from folks, but as a kid, when I needed to make money with my tools, had to go where the breakdowns were more likely.