Understanding Curb Weight, GVWR, Towing and CDL requirements

[paulsharvey]

So, quick googling; and I think I understand. The 10,000+ trailer is irrelevant till we get to the 26000 GVWR. So, our OP, based on attached, can have his 10k truck and his 16k trailer; or his 12k truck+14k trailer; OR any truck upto 26k, as long as his trailer is under 10k.

And looking at options; if I was the OP; I would be looking at 10k truck and 16k trailer. I just don't think any 10k trailers will be able to haul a 8800 lbs machine.

 

[Hay Dude]

The CDL talk weight & combos has been interesting & humorous. Once again proving TBN not only discusses through things thoroughly, but then beats them like a dead horse!

Just don’t forget that even under CDL weights, you need a med card. May not seem like a big deal, but in MY state it is. In MY area, they TRY to fail you. I have no problems passing the tests at all, but I did discover I have moderate hearing loss in my left ear. The hearing test was 10 minutes of beeps to the point where I’m like “you are trying to fail me”. Urine tests, vision tests, reflexes, BP, pulse, strength, etc.

I *think* PA starts the med card requirement for any combo over 17,000lbs and commercial income.

So basically, in PA you need a med card to tow a pair of zero turns on a 7k trailer behind an F-250.

Even if the OP stays under the CDL, he is well into med card territory.

 

[MGP4506]

Maybe....maybe not.

There clearly needs a chance....but there certainly needs to be a line drawn. And whoever is just over the like will always be unhappy

But truck "ratings" have pushed higher and higher over the years. And when a person cannot even pull a piece of equipment on a 14k trailer with a dually.....without needing the SAME class license as a 80,000# tractor trailer rig....something is wrong.

Or when someone is perfectly legal with a 20year old 1-ton dually truck.....but they want to upgrade to a newer version of the same truck they suddenly need a class-A CDL???? Something is wrong.

Or someone trailer shopping and wanting to upgrade to 8k axles to get better 17.5 wheel/tires and oil bath axles suddenly needs a CDL.

Or de-rating a truck and trailer just to stay under 26k.....even though the SAME rig if NOT derated is a CDL rig.

And this isn't even poking the hornets nest of RV's.

Landscape companies and light construction companies hauling mowers, or skid loaders, or mini-excavators should NOT be required to have all their drivers get a class-A to drive a freaking pickup with an equipment trailer.

Maybe limit the operating radius like for farmers. Encourage local business....150-mile radius with a "pickup" platform. Or limit trailer length....say 30'. It would curb alot of the hotshot guys. They would still need a CDL.

Or maybe up the weight limits to reflect the modern trucks vs what they were 30 years ago.

Or even an intermediate license class for a pickup+trailer?

I don't have all the answers. But the current classifications are a joke....and NOT what was intended when CDL laws were drafted. And now it has just become about money and nothing to do with safety.

You said it in your own reply. "there certainly needs to be a line drawn" That line is 26,000lbs. If they raised it to 30,000 lbs. Then next someone would want 35,000 lbs. then 40,000 lbs...... Where would it end? 80,000lbs? And actually you can have a Class A with a O restriction (Truck /Trailer combination)

 

[Hay Dude]

So, quick googling; and I think I understand. The 10,000+ trailer is irrelevant till we get to the 26000 GVWR. So, our OP, based on attached, can have his 10k truck and his 16k trailer; or his 12k truck+14k trailer; OR any truck upto 26k, as long as his trailer is under 10k.

And looking at options; if I was the OP; I would be looking at 10k truck and 16k trailer. I just don't think any 10k trailers will be able to haul a 8800 lbs machine.View attachment 792907

No, there is no 10K trailer with an 8800lb payload.
That’s why I’d opt for the 2500-3500HD SRW with a 14-16k trailer to haul machine, then buy an older 25,999 dump truck.

It’s really not that complicated.

It makes a lot more sense to have a bigger digging machine to load a 25,999 dump truck with anyway. It’s the best way to “go big”, but stay out of CDL territory.
If you go with an F450/550, that limits your trailer greatly, and therefore your machine size greatly.

The 25,999 dump truck will cost 10-15K for a decent one with a diesel and an allison. They are all over the place, and one thing that has stayed pretty cheap.

 

[paulsharvey]

Looks like Some 15,900 lbs GVWR goose neck dump trailers, can be as low as 3900 lbs curb weight. That seems light, but, thr lighter curb weight means more usable payload. I dont know that it's match made in heaven, But, with the trailer shown, you could haul a JD50G, Or 6 tons of material. Just need to keep your truck GVWR below 10K. Probably the JD35G, or 4 tons of material are more realistic. Gives you room for fuel, chains, people, ect.

 

[Hay Dude]

You have to be careful how much weight the trailer manufacturers “shift” over to the towing unit (pin weight). Some are as high as 20%. Can a SRW pickup handle it? Can the hitch handle it?

Lots to consider-have to do your homework.

I think dump trailers are fantastic for light duty dirt work, but loading equipment into them is tedious. Might still be better off with an equipment trailer for the equipment and a dump trailer for the dirt, pulled by a HD pickup.

 

[paulsharvey]

You have to be careful how much weight the trailer manufacturers “shift” over to the towing unit (pin weight). Some are as high as 20%. Can a SRW pickup handle it? Can the hitch handle it?

Lots to consider-have to do your homework.

I think dump trailers are fantastic for light duty dirt work, but loading equipment into them is tedious. Might still be better off with an equipment trailer for the equipment and a dump trailer for the dirt, pulled by a HD pickup.

I agree.

If it was my business, and it's not, I still would look to contract out the Vast majority of material hauling. Maybe those odd 2 or 3 tons of fancy landscape rocks, or top soil, whatever; But for dirt, road base, trust me, better to get that 18T at a time, and let somebody else worry about repairs on those.

I still don't really like a dump trailer for moving material. Some don't dump at a steep enough angle to really empty with a moist material; the ones that will dump at enough angle are Sketchy as heck on anything other than truly flat land.

Edit: the trucking business and Contracting are related businesses But not the same. Trucking company's deal with very tight profit margins, but do a huge volume. Sounds like the OP is wanting to do more selective high value added work;

 

[Squirrel Tooth Alice]

If they raised it to 30,000 lbs. Then next someone would want 35,000 lbs. then 40,000 lbs...... Where would it end? 80,000lbs?

Good point. I vote for bypassing 30k and 35k, and going straight to 40,000 lbs!

Seriously, there is a whole lot of room between:
- 26000 lbs (my daughter who barely passed her driving test in a Civic is allowed to operate with no additional endorsement),
and
- 80,000 lbs, 75 foot-long combination (160 hours of schooling / training at a cost of $6k).

A class/level somewhere in between seems reasonable, considering the specs and capabilities of modern diesel duallies.

 

[Hay Dude]

I agree.

If it was my business, and it's not, I still would look to contract out the Vast majority of material hauling. Maybe those odd 2 or 3 tons of fancy landscape rocks, or top soil, whatever; But for dirt, road base, trust me, better to get that 18T at a time, and let somebody else worry about repairs on those.

I still don't really like a dump trailer for moving material. Some don't dump at a steep enough angle to really empty with a moist material; the ones that will dump at enough angle are Sketchy as heck on anything other than truly flat land.

Good points.
Trailers have nearly doubled in price in the last 6 years. They weren’t the bargain they used to be.

If the OP got 2 trailers and the same 3/4-1 ton SRW pickup, would he be better off with a dump trailer than an older dump truck?
Cost wise (up front) they are about a tie.
Maintenance-wise? yes. A trailer is a joke to maintain compared to an older dump truck.
Versatility wise? no. The dump truck can double as a second vehicle and is more manueverable

 

[LD1]

You said it in your own reply. "there certainly needs to be a line drawn" That line is 26,000lbs. If they raised it to 30,000 lbs. Then next someone would want 35,000 lbs. then 40,000 lbs...... Where would it end? 80,000lbs? And actually you can have a Class A with a O restriction (Truck /Trailer combination)

I'm saying the line needs changed. Not sure what's so hard to understand about MY OPINION