As with all new tech. Ask grandpa about his first television set, or read some historical perspective on the first years of the auto industry. Heck, our ICE's waffled between "unreliable" and "high maintenance" from the 1890's into the 1950's!
Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2
- Thread starter Jchonline
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NoTrespassing
Elite Member
Ford claims EVs will be profitable by the end of 2026. I kind of doubt that but we'll see. According to Forbes it took Tesla 17 years to turn a profit.
September 2022 Article:
Tesla Stock Breakdown: By The Numbers, How Does Tesla Make Money In 2022?
We all consider Tesla an electric vehicle maker, but this company has other lines of business - from tax credits to solar panels to crypto. We examine Tesla’s financials to see how the company actually generates revenue and profits. No hype.
www.forbes.com
It took Tesla 17 years to turn a profit when it announced that 2020 was the first full year of profitability in the company’s history. While the company generates substantial revenue from automotive sales and regulatory credits, it took some time to profit due to production costs and supply chain issues.
Fuddyduddy1952
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Gale I believe you're a good fellow as are other EV proponents and again as I've said before: choices! This EV switch is touted as being progressive when what suits one will not be appropriate or embraced by another. I'm happy for you and your choice, try to understand mine. Afterwards I can be exicerated, here goes:
I hate to see you struggling so over the EV concept. [I've never struggled over the EV concept. I doubt if too many electronic technicians of 43 years do. I see them from a different perspective].
Not sure if you think the Planet needs saving? I don't think the planet needs saving and furthermore I don't think EVs could save it if it did need saving. [Well...isn't that the whole EV purpose, what we're led to believe? It's compliance with the low emissions mandate. Look at California and other states following, stopping sales of new ICE anything from weedeaters to heavy equipment.]
Not sure why you seem so intimidated by Elon Musk. He puts his pants on one leg at a time I expect. Being a genius is not his fault. Take some time to get to know the man because he's very transparent and easy to understand. [Elon doesn't intimate me. If one judges intelligence and success monetarily he make Stephen Hawking seem an idiot. What concerns me is anything so close to bankruptcy then skyrocketing this fast. Just when McDonald's started popping up everywhere doesn't mean IMHO it's a healthy choice. I've never eaten in one.]
ICE vehicles will not run well on Mars but EVs will. He is perfecting the technology on Earth and selling it for Mars travel and construction funding. [OK...not that I intend on moving to Mars. I guess when man screws up Earth it's time to move on to another to screw up.
]I want a car that I can fuel up on sunshine. I want FSD. I want the safest car at the new car average selling price. Tesla is a one stop shop for my wants. [Good for you! And I sincerely mean it! You found something that perfectly suits your needs and I'm happy for you...sincerely. My wife & I are different and why we have so many vehicles. Tomorrow I'm getting another load of hay in an old 4x4 F150. At 70 I love unloading two square 85# bales at a time. I hop off the tailgate...but that's me. My wife loves her '68 Firebird 455 (468) manual. She built the motor in it, set up carb. & distributor, degreed the cam, etc.). Again...choices. Everyone is different. I balk at being told what to drive, what appliances I can use, etc.]
If I live long enough, an inexpensive EV made 100% in America I could charge 100% solar all made in USA I wouldn't mind owning. (I don't want a touchscreen).
Gale Hawkins
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I have to do a lot standing when picking the wife at midnight. Last night was a case and point the medevac flight could not leave till she got all the paperwork done so she was late getting out. Nothing can be done about that.Gale I believe you're a good fellow as are other EV proponents and again as I've said before: choices! This EV switch is touted as being progressive when what suits one will not be appropriate or embraced by another. I'm happy for you and your choice, try to understand mine. Afterwards I can be exicerated, here goes:
I hate to see you struggling so over the EV concept. [I've never struggled over the EV concept. I doubt if too many electronic technicians of 43 years do. I see them from a different perspective].
Not sure if you think the Planet needs saving? I don't think the planet needs saving and furthermore I don't think EVs could save it if it did need saving. [Well...isn't that the whole EV purpose, what we're led to believe? It's compliance with the low emissions mandate. Look at California and other states following, stopping sales of new ICE anything from weedeaters to heavy equipment.]
Not sure why you seem so intimidated by Elon Musk. He puts his pants on one leg at a time I expect. Being a genius is not his fault. Take some time to get to know the man because he's very transparent and easy to understand. [Elon doesn't intimate me. If one judges intelligence and success monetarily he make Stephen Hawking seem an idiot. What concerns me is anything so close to bankruptcy then skyrocketing this fast. Just when McDonald's started popping up everywhere doesn't mean IMHO it's a healthy choice. I've never eaten in one.]
ICE vehicles will not run well on Mars but EVs will. He is perfecting the technology on Earth and selling it for Mars travel and construction funding. [OK...not that I intend on moving to Mars. I guess when man screws up Earth it's time to move on to another to screw up.
I want a car that I can fuel up on sunshine. I want FSD. I want the safest car at the new car average selling price. Tesla is a one stop shop for my wants. [Good for you! And I sincerely mean it! You found something that perfectly suits your needs and I'm happy for you...sincerely. My wife & I are different and why we have so many vehicles. Tomorrow I'm getting another load of hay in an old 4x4 F150. At 70 I love unloading two square 85# bales at a time. I hop off the tailgate...but that's me. My wife loves her '68 Firebird 455 (468) manual. She built the motor in it, set up carb. & distributor, degreed the cam, etc.). Again...choices. Everyone is different. I balk at being told what to drive, what appliances I can use, etc.]
If I live long enough, an inexpensive EV made 100% in America I could charge 100% solar all made in USA I wouldn't mind owning. (I don't want a touchscreen).
The reason I bought the leaf in 2019 was because it has a heat pump system on it so I can stay cool or I can stay warm as long as I need to without running an engine and I despise especially in summer time to run an engine to run an air conditioning that creates a heat box.
The reality is that most people today 50 or older will die without ever on any EV because it does not make sense or even if they got a bank full of money. Just availability is going to be very tight for many years to come because about only 3% of the vehicles in the world today are EVs.
Growing up in the tobacco patch staring at the rear end of the mule did not make me all that liberal and green.
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"This is an announcement from Genetic Control
It is my sad duty to inform you of a four foot restriction
On humanoid height"
Get 'Em Out by Friday - Wikipedia
Gale Hawkins
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Ford talks EV business details.
Not terribly confusing, good movie though.
I do like your idea about the workforce contributing to the general system more than they consume.
And the definition of ‘less fortunate’ would absolutely need to be defined.
Probably another thread in itself.
But in general, no I don’t personally believe in an expiration date. Ask me about non-married couples having 8 kids at poverty level income sucking hard earned money from other tax payers…. And that is another discussion all together.
Should some medical coverage be able to be denied from private insurers because of preexisting conditions? Probably, or at the very least a rate that is in line with the risk. No difference than me paying a higher premium for life insurance than my wife. Makes complete sense to me.
Work related is completely different and stuck in a workers compensation insurance policy which has rules and limits and I’ve witnessed substantial abuse.
“A prosperous system takes care of the less fortunate in their midst. They do not consider them as discardable dregs of society. They are given support!”
- Couldn’t agree more!! Definitely on the same page… let’s just better define ‘less fortunate’
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Grumpycat
Elite Member
But but but… the claim stated ICE vehicles use no cobalt. This is patently a lie.
Also a lie to infer an EV consumes cobalt or lithium. Musk correctly stated a used EV battery is a richer source of ore than found in any mine.
And other fail to understand that EV batteries rarely fail dead, they simply lose capacity. While Gale’s LEAF battery was no longer acceptable in the LEAF it was still perfectly good for home power backup storage where weight is of small concern.
Grumpycat
Elite Member
USA could produce all the lithium and cobalt we need, but is forbidden by government. Same with oil and natural gas.
So quit pretending there is a real shortage. The shortage is artificial, self-inflicted. China is not limited this way.
Grumpycat
Elite Member
The end-consumer price of gasoline vs electricity is the only fair metric of measuring true resource consumption and/or scarcity. To claim otherwise is pure Marxist Progressive Left fantasy economics.
No free man works for less than his worth. No free man surrenders his resources for less than their worth. These costs accumulate during the chain of production resulting in an honest cost of
Contrast this with the claims of CO2 or energy gain/lost in the ethanol mandate? There is no honest accounting, someone guesses as to how much diesel is consumed in the tractor. Someone guesses as to how much natural gas is consumed producing fertilizer. Something is always missed. Someone always guesses wrong because there is nothing reinforces honest accumulation of the metric. If ethanol is renewable then why does it cost more to produce than gasoline? If it costs more then it is consuming more resources.
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