Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[Gale Hawkins]

And we know where future production or refinement will come from or be done?

Interesting!

 

[shooterdon]

I like Musk. So that does not factor into my questioning the practicality of EV's for my needs.

I do not care about the needs or wants of others unless they affect me. The rationale others use to justify their choices is interesting and useful in evaluating if/when my opinion on EV's needs modification. I discount any post that has stuff like "saving the planet", "child labor", "mining this or that is bad". "renewable", "self driving" etc etc. I am not going down those rabbit holes. We can agree to disagree.

My decision "drivers" are total cost of ownership and not just cost/mile, getting affordable repairs locally, convenience, longevity, and comfort.

An EV needs to "tick" all those criteria with some degree of success relative to my expectations before it is a viable option for me.

I suspect I will have an EV as a second car at some point. An ICE will likely remain our primary vehicle in my lifetime. I can see a $30k EV "puddle jumper" for 80-90% of our current needs. EV's cannot do it all currently.

 

[Egon]

There seems to be questions as to having the required amount of electricity available to charge EV’s.
With EV usage going up hydrocarbon use should be getting reduced. That means the amount of electricity required for fuel production should be going down and be available.
From the reservoir to fuel tank requires a lot of electricity. More than we imagine! There are also considerable commodities such as iron and other metals used that require considerable electricity to produce.
There are the medical costs incurred by the production of these materials and product usage that are incurred.
These are all real factors that should be included when attempting cost comparisons.
( I’ll have missed a lot )

Comparing gasoline cost to electrical cost in evaluating efficiency is basically a futile attempt producing numbers that have no real meaning!

 

[bnold]

There's a difference, here. I would never keep any vehicle to 230k miles. I usually sell mine around 70k miles, but my wife has gotten a few up over 120k miles, before I convince her to give them up. But my last Ram was 12 years old when I sold it, and not a single repair was ever required on it, other than that aforementioned self-inflicted CV boot damage.

Wife and I collectively did about 70,000 last year. Part of living in the sticks and needing the city for income. A lot for sure. Especially considering average in the US for 2 people should be in the 30,000 range.

I’m used to a new company truck every 3yrs. Currently the Tesla is the job commuter and expect to swap it out at 3yrs and ~120,000miles (just prior to warranty expiration if I private sell vs trade)

My previous truck didn’t see a service center post warranty, think I had an additional alternator, water pump, ball joints and brake job after the 100,000 warranty expired. Those recalls I listed were all during warranty period. Definitely the worst vehicle I’ve owned from a recall standpoint. Still a great truck.

Expect my current Ram will go another 10yrs+ and 200,000+ miles before it gets replaced. Wife’s Lexus will hopefully reliably go 150k before a replacement.

I’ve had BMWs and VWs as well and never had any recalls that I can remember. Just goes to show different experiences. I will say that BMW is dead to me… that thing was expensive to keep running, always something. 2015 X5 diesel that I would have liked 200k+ out of… I was sick of that ride by 130-150k. Never again, a shame too because the thing was beautiful and a heck of a lot of fun to drive (of course pre-EV performance for me)

The VWs (diesel Jettas) were pretty poorly finished inside, but I was really impressed with them mechanically. Even electrically the fabric looming and labeling was so far superior to anything American made. Definite German engineering advantage, they just cut corners on interior fit and finish.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I am starting to seriously question if China can flood the USA with cheap EVs as the Japanese did with small car 60 years ago when bought my first new car for $2150.00 a 1973 Datsun 1200 over Ford Pinto or Chevy Vega.

Thanks to Elon and staff the USA is leading the EV evolution.

 

[bnold]

I will admit Elon Musk is a narcissist genuis at getting American ( and other countries) tax money to make himself rich.

Please explain how this is different from other American automakers?

Seems Tesla is a better steward than most, one of their largest federal loans paid back what 10yrs early? What many cite as ‘subsidies’ for Elon and his companies often roll in contracts… like NASA contracts for SpaceX and tax credit availabilities for solar installation (Solar City). I admire Musk for making use of the money available, I don’t fault him for it.

Personally, I claim as much as possible on my taxes, leave no stone unturned to reduce my liability to the local or Fed gov.

A hundred times over I’d rather divert tax money to Elon vs 99% of the pork in most spending bills. Handouts for local deadbeats, unchecked disability, unchecked food stamps, unchecked free health care, unchecked illegal immigrant support, support for countries across the pond, bail outs for poorly run businesses, lifetime salaries and insurance for government employees, the list can go on and on for things I’d rather not spend tax dollars on.

 

[bnold]

There are the medical costs incurred by the production of these materials and product usage that are incurred.

Remember the movie ‘Thank you for smoking’?

This might all back fire if folks live longer and the government has to support more people living longer off our tax dollars! Hmm. My stance may change. Keeping people alive longer is insanely expensive!

 

[BadDecisions]

A lot of those things are why EVs are appealing to fleet owners. Way lower maintenance costs. As soon as bean counters determine total cost of ownership is when one technology overtakes another.

Funny thing...my employer has invested heavily in EVs for our fleet, spanning from small cars like the Volts, through 1/2 ton pickups, and all the way up into heavier service trucks such as bucket trucks. I remember we got a handful of full EV Silverados about 5 years ago, while the bigger trucks are more along the lines of hybrids, where the main propulsion of the trucks are still diesel with a large battery bank to run the hydraulics, PTO sections for the booms and to run the APU for air conditioning. This way we don't have those trucks sitting at a high idle for hours at a time with the guys sitting in the bucket, or in the cab running the AC while doing computer work. With temps often exceeding 100*F in the summer here, most of our vehicles get started in the morning, and don't get shut down until the work day is over. For many of the field service guys, that's 12+ hours a day.

Although they've been dabbling in EVs for decades at this point, they started getting more serious about it roughly 10 years ago.

All the reports I've seen thus far is that the EVs have been costing us considerably more overall. While yes, we're saving money on fuel, the downtime, maintenance, and repair of these vehicles have FAR outstripped any fuel cost savings we've seen.

 

[MossRoad]

Funny thing...my employer has invested heavily in EVs for our fleet, spanning from small cars like the Volts, through 1/2 ton pickups, and all the way up into heavier service trucks such as bucket trucks. I remember we got a handful of full EV Silverados about 5 years ago, while the bigger trucks are more along the lines of hybrids, where the main propulsion of the trucks are still diesel with a large battery bank to run the hydraulics, PTO sections for the booms and to run the APU for air conditioning. This way we don't have those trucks sitting at a high idle for hours at a time with the guys sitting in the bucket, or in the cab running the AC while doing computer work. With temps often exceeding 100*F in the summer here, most of our vehicles get started in the morning, and don't get shut down until the work day is over. For many of the field service guys, that's 12+ hours a day.

Although they've been dabbling in EVs for decades at this point, they started getting more serious about it roughly 10 years ago.

All the reports I've seen thus far is that the EVs have been costing us considerably more overall. While yes, we're saving money on fuel, the downtime, maintenance, and repair of these vehicles have FAR outstripped any fuel cost savings we've seen.

Did Chevy make those?

 

[WinterDeere]

One thing that amuses me most about these threads is watching my fellow hard-line right-wingers suddenly become environmentalists. So many are apparently more concerned with the planet and that one small niche of child labor dedicated toward EV component production, versus all of the other child labor already producing legacy product they buy every day, than ever before.