Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #141  
I have one builder who is quoting the Barndominium project. I want to see where he comes in at before making changes. I could only find one builder out of many who were even interested in the whole project. It's not great out there for ppl looking to build, that was 2014...
Yeah, I know what you mean. We live in an affluential resort area in northern Michigan and the builders are quoting $600 a square foot. We want to build a 4000 square-foot house, doesn’t take much math to realize we can’t afford it.
 
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   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #142  
Yeah, I know what you mean. We live in an affluential resort area in northern Michigan and the builders are quoting $600 a square foot. We want to build a 4000 square-foot house, doesn’t take much math to realize we can’t afford it.

Can you cut that in half if you do some of the work yourself and hire contractors?

There was a time you could. We did. Drew it up and had an architect turn it into building plans and then to an engineer for his stamp. Working on it evenings, the build took 5 years. Not a problem, that enabled a lot of "pay as you go" and all kinds of savings. When we got to something we didn't want to do we hired it done.

Things I'm glad we did:
Start with a full survey & paperwork done
Paid a pro to put in a full basement type foundation - but left it unfinished, just storage.
High ceilings inside & big windows.
All on one floor except a single guest room upstairs....
Everything wide enough for a wheel chair
No stairs between car and front door
Metal tile roof
Faces away from the road.
Double thick north wall
Heated hardwood floors
Raised the foundation one foot to get above FEMA flood level
Nice office and workshop

Things I wish I'd done:
Stone or brick chimney instead of Stainless double wall pipe
Extended the roof farther over the patio
Larger Utility Room
More closets
Made a walk-out onto the roof
Should have raised it two feet.. FEMA just changed their flood maps

rScotty
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #143  
I'm 80 and have a 1250 square foot home (25 x 50) on top of a 1250 square foot three car garage built 20 years ago into a slope for ground level walkouts all round.

Two things I have that you are going to need eventually; handrails on both sides of the stair case plus a toilet and sink two piece bath room on the lower level.

Just sayin' 🤔

BTW, those are 10 foot doors.
 

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   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?
  • Thread Starter
#144  
Rule #2 - Check your flood zone classification. FEMA has changed them (again) and in some places the highest points in the area are in the flood zone. Have your surveyor determine the BFE (base flood elevation) because if you build on a couple of feet of fill, you can get your home removed from the flood zone (LOMA, Letter of Map Amendment) and you won't have to pay for flood insurance which is expensive and doesn't cover much anyway.
I downloaded the maps and there are no flood zones shown anywhere on my 60+acres. (Just like the previous maps I downloaded years ago...)

The maps I downloaded are effective as of Sept 17th 2010.
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?
  • Thread Starter
#145  
I'm 80 and have a 1250 square foot home (25 x 50) on top of a 1250 square foot three car garage built 20 years ago into a slope for ground level walkouts all round.

Two things I have that you are going to need eventually; handrails on both sides of the stair case plus a toilet and sink two piece bath room on the lower level.

Just sayin' 🤔

BTW, those are 10 foot doors.

I overlayed our floor plans. Looks like your door spacing is about 15" wider, and overall the inside of your garage is about 3ft wider.

Garage-Comp.png


Do you have work benches & shelves on the inside of the garage? The plan is for mine, just parking, no clutter. I have the rest of the shop for benches, shelves, toolboxes, etc.

If I make the garage wider I might have to move from 14" tall I-Joists to 16" tall, losing headroom. I don't want any columns inside the garage, want a clear span ceiling.

Span Chart.png

TJI-560.png


Right now I have designed in 14" (TJI-560 from above chart or equivalent) @ 16" O.C. I may be able to add 3 ft width to the garage (one section of steel siding) and put the I-Joists 12" O.C. I'd like an overperforming floor and not reach the max span of these joists per the chart. I don't want a bouncy floor in the living area.
 

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   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #146  
I downloaded the maps and there are no flood zones shown anywhere on my 60+acres. (Just like the previous maps I downloaded years ago...)

The maps I downloaded are effective as of Sept 17th 2010.

I just went through this. 2010 FEMA maps may be out of date today. FEMA has changed since then and they are constantly changing the way that they calculate flood zones. It doesn't cost anything to check.

The next upcoming change in the way FEMA calculates flood insurance is is anticipated to be major since talk is that it will not be based on primarily on elevation or their venerable HEC program - but on horizontal distance to water as well.

If you meet their requirements when you build, that is one thing. If you want their flood insurance in the future - or some future buyer does - then you may want to have a FEMA rep go over your plans. They don't charge anything, and there is a FEMA flood administrator for everywhere they offer their insurance.

Frankly, I wish I had known all this and paid attention to it when I built in 2005. The info was available, but I was biased towards just getting it done and my tendency was to ignore or work around things that would have gotten in my way.
That caused a couple of problems that could have been easily avoided. FEMA is one of those.

rScotty
 
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   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #147  
I'm 80 and have a 1250 square foot home (25 x 50) on top of a 1250 square foot three car garage built 20 years ago into a slope for ground level walkouts all round.

Two things I have that you are going to need eventually; handrails on both sides of the stair case plus a toilet and sink two piece bath room on the lower level.

Just sayin' 🤔

BTW, those are 10 foot doors.
Nice house. Love the design.
rScotty
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?
  • Thread Starter
#148  
I just went through this. 2010 FEMA maps may be out of date today. FEMA has changed since then and they are constantly changing the way that they calculate flood zones. It doesn't cost anything to check.

The next upcoming change in the way FEMA calculates flood insurance is is anticipated to be major since talk is that it will not be based on primarily on elevation or their venerable HEC program - but on horizontal distance to water as well.

If you meet their requirements when you build, that is one thing. If you want their flood insurance in the future - or some future buyer does - then you may want to have a FEMA rep go over your plans. They don't charge anything, and there is a FEMA flood administrator for everywhere they offer their insurance.

Frankly, I wish I had known all this and paid attention to it when I built in 2005. The info was available, but I was biased towards just getting it done and my tendency was to ignore or work around things that would have gotten in my way.
That caused a couple of problems that could have been easily avoided. FEMA is one of those.

rScotty
So how do I get the latest maps?
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #149  
So how do I get the latest maps?

I would go right to the source. Call the building dept. or FEMA and find out who the FEMA rep is for your area and let him do the legwork. It's what they do.

FEMA is in the business of selling insurance. Let them do the work.

BTW. When I built, FEMA required that I raise the foundation one foot. So I did. If I had been smart enough to raise it 18 or 24" instead, it would have cost me nothing but a slight expense and some landscaping & solved future problems. Wish I had.
 
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   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #150  
Lots of good information on here. My suggestion would be to really, I mean REALLY, do your due diligence on the GC/builder. Building our "dream home" has been a nightmare, 95% of it because the GC was nowhere to be found and just sent his subs out, and payed them without even checking if they did the work completely (not to mention well). I know it's a tough time for skilled labor, but supervision would have offset that drastically.
I'd suggest looking up recent projects of the GC on your county website and sending polite letters to recent clients/homes, see if they'll give any comment. I know I would and I know that we won't be one of the clients they use as a referral, so take any referrals they give you with a grain of salt.
Further, really probe the GC's company structure, who works for him, how many employees, how do they schedule subs, do they use online software that allows you to see the project progress, etc. We thought that going with a family run operation would be ideal, similar values, etc. In my experience, this was a bad call. The whole family GC (dad), owner (mom), assistant/do-nothing(adult child 1), assistant(adult child 2) were the entire "company". No professionalism, no organization and no sympathy when $hit went sideways - the whole family had to get a paycheck and we were the cash cow. Also, no hesitation in trying to blame us or insult us - in writing. If youre working with employees of a professional company, you've got a lot better chance of them helping you out, in my opinion.
Also, have a lawyer review the GC's contract, at least to let you know what your signing up for. If you have something you think is unfair to you (and there will be, its their contract), try to change it to something more fair. If the GC throws a fit or refuses, good riddance. Delaying your project until you find someone who'll work with you will be well worth it. I know this is tough when your wanting to get the project going but it will totally pay with dividends in the long run.
The GC will give you a budget, REALLY probe them on what that budget includes before signing the contract. In my experience it was the bare minimum, that way they could charge us change fees for anything outside the budget. So anything beyond "contractor grade" (i.e. crap), is extra and they get more money from you.
Lastly, you've got to be your own advocate, 100% of the time. if you see something that looks wrong or weird, it probably is. Keep in mind, subs are there on a contract price, that want to get in, do a job (different than a good job) and get paid. if it looks like crap, that's the next guys problem. After everyone's done and gone, your the last guy, so in the end it's your problem. Keep in mind, the plan-demic really screwed up the world, including skilled labor. A lot of the knowledgeable old timer's checked out and didn't get a chance to train up the next line of guys, resulting in much crappier subs out there. Keep in mind through the process, the GC will continue to work with his subs long after the clients project is done, so fairly obvious where his loyalty will lie.
I may sound a bit bitter, but this has been the most frustrating 18 months of my life. Building a home is not for the faint of heart, no matter how you go about doing it.
Oh, and if youre married, you'll get told about a 1000 times that "building a house is one of the toughest things on a marriage". Not that I'm telling you that, it just gets old hearing it, especially from your mother ;)
 

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