Dual element filtration. How much dust gets past? Yup…

[Hersheyfarm]

So my thread on kubota filter design didnt go over too good. But, doing deep dive in filtration led to some articles, how often to clean. Too much cleaning vs letting filter clog some so the filter minder shows restriction(dirt buildup adds to filtration). I have 3 kubotas minus the hay equipment. I’ve had 2 other kubotas, m59 and m62, also had many other pieces equipment in the past 30 years, case/Deere backhoes. Plus current tractor massey 4345. All my machines have/had cabs except the m59/62. You’re more likely to work in dustier conditions with a cab. Like my svl75. Skid steers live in the worst, dustiest environment. I’ve graveled a few slabs for my builders and it can be awful in the summer. Just working around the farm in dry dirt is bad. The mini excavator is not in as much dust because it doesn't stir up as much with tracks and you’re not traveling as much. But, i always blow out my outer elements about 10ish hours. Today i took the filters out to look into housing and was surprised to see a very small amount of dust. Just pulling the inner filter out and looking in there its like very clean, especially compared to the rest of the housing, but shining an led in there and rubbing your finger in there its kinda like that table in the corner that you never dust. Not damaging dust but still there. The one thing i did is take a cloth with windex on it and wipe the sealing surface of housing and filter seals, so when you put them in you can feel the tackiness of rubber on plastic. So, what’s your filter maintenance like? My u48-5 has 68hr and svl75 has 179hr. Still new by most standards. My massey that I’ve owned since 2002 has about 1600. Not checked it but it gets a little less attention until hay starts. I guess it’s absolutely impossible, and not realistic to think air filtration is zero dust intrusion. Its not feasible to filter to hepa standards(.03 micron), but I may back off filter maintenance a little per some articles I read.

 

[dirttoys]

It is not correct or complete, but, I have always viewed the inner filter as more of a fail safe than additional filter.

I don't blow mine out as much as you do, but try to get to them every month or so, if I were to poke a hole or split a seam, the inner could save a fortune.

Best,

ed

 

[jjeff]

Wonder how many folks check the dust unloader valve if your equipment has one?

 

[5030]

I always check the intake tract for any dust when cleaning the primary and secondary filters which I do often and I coat the intake tract with a rag with grease on it to capture any dirt, just in case. Have filter minders on both the tractors and my pickup truck but they never get loaded enough to register.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

It is not correct or complete, but, I have always viewed the inner filter as more of a fail safe than additional filter.

I don't blow mine out as much as you do, but try to get to them every month or so, if I were to poke a hole or split a seam, the inner could save a fortune.

Best,

ed

Uno, on the u48 the inner filter is just a thin metal screen. I had never pulled it and was shocked. Most inners are a thick fabric. This thing is a joke. Look at it, it doesnt seem like any kind of life saver.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Wonder how many folks check the dust unloader valve if your equipment has one?

I dont…is that the little rubber flapper?

 

[Hersheyfarm]

I always check the intake tract for any dust when cleaning the primary and secondary filters which I do often and I coat the intake tract with a rag with grease on it to capture any dirt, just in case. Have filter minders on both the tractors and my pickup truck but they never get loaded enough to register.

The only time i have ever had a filter minder show any kind of resistance on a diesel was on a ford 6.7 where i was following a rig in the worst rain I’ve eve been in and sucked a little mist.

 

[5030]

Uno, on the u48 the inner filter is just a thin metal screen. I had never pulled it and was shocked. Most inners are a thick fabric. This thing is a joke. Look at it, it doesnt seem like any kind of life saver.
View attachment 783962

Both my M9's have full inners with filter media.

 

[marhar]

I dont…is that the little rubber flapper?

It is. It is at the bottom of the filter housing. Once mine was cracked and that allowed the dust to bypass the pre-cleaner.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Most people seem to think that they are doing their engines a favor by keeping the filter clean. A service manager once told me that the dirtier the filter the cleaner the air going into the engine. It makes sense when you think about it. So why would you give your engine the dirtiest air possible by cleaning the filter?

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Most people seem to think that they are doing their engines a favor by keeping the filter clean. A service manager once told me that the dirtier the filter the cleaner the air going into the engine. It makes sense when you think about it. So why would you give your engine the dirtiest air possible by cleaning the filter?

I was just reading articles(I’m also posting same stuff on another site) that said just that. The dirt aids in filtration. I know one thing, if you hit the outside of the filter at all, dust will blow through the filter coming out the inside. That ain’t good.

Oh, and has anyone seen the inner filter that comes on the U48-5? Look at this, it’s just a screen. Not a heavy cloth style like most. Fine dust goes right through.

 

[jjeff]

I still briefly remember an overpriced attachment for an air hose to clean air filters, I believe it's off the market now, I also remember around the same time manufacturers warning of cleaning an air filter. I usually replace my air filters per manufacturers specs, unless I open dust unloader valve and extensive dirt flows out of it.

 

[big bubba]

changed inner filter only once in 825 hrs mostly precautionary. my parts man of many yrs mentioned it was basically a safeguard filter if primary fails. also, he mentioned one should avoid handling the inner filter other than at either ends, something about compressing fibers. just as a footnote

in terms of cleaning, always inside to out. i avoid small compressed air nozzles as they could puncture paper element. like to use a leaf blower, my tube fits into the tube filter. high volume, low pressure is what i like.
regards

 

[5030]

You always clean a pleated filter element with low pressure air from the inside out as stated in the Kubota shop manual. Only filter I know of that benefits from being dirty is a K&N. I won't use them as they pass dirty air when clean.

 

[5030]

After 6000+ hours on my M9 cab. I'd say I'm doing something right.

 

[jjeff]

After 6000+ hours on my M9 cab. I'd say I'm doing something right.

Almost 5 and 3k hrs on 30+ yr old L series Kubotas I'm doing something right.

 

[ovrszd]

We can't afford the type of filtration that would have zero contamination at the engine. Filter system is designed to only pass small enough particles that are harmless.

Blowing out air filters is serious business and can easily ruin a filter.

Anyone remember oil bath filter systems? They operate under the philosophy I mentioned above.

 

[marhar]

Most people seem to think that they are doing their engines a favor by keeping the filter clean. A service manager once told me that the dirtier the filter the cleaner the air going into the engine. It makes sense when you think about it. So why would you give your engine the dirtiest air possible by cleaning the filter?

In mfg wooden furniture the filters "bag house" did a better cleaning the air when the filters were dirty. Dust would close the tiny holes air came through. The bags would actually get so closed we would clean the bags so air would flow through.

The difference: Bag house had air blowing out the filters. An air filter has air being pulled into the filter and then the motor. With time the filter degrades and lets dust in.

An old timer told me oil is the blood, the air is the oxygen and diesel is the food.

 

[marhar]

We can't afford the type of filtration that would have zero contamination at the engine. Filter system is designed to only pass small enough particles that are harmless.

Blowing out air filters is serious business and can easily ruin a filter.

Anyone remember oil bath filter systems? They operate under the philosophy I mentioned above.

1964 Ford truck had an oil bath. I remember my father "changing the oil" in the bath once. The oil bath must have worked, the oil was dark black when he replaced it.

 

[big bubba]

yup, the stainless filter element & oil bath housing worked great for the 28 yrs i had my TO 35. w/regular clean outs did an outstanding job