John Deere oil

[Harry in Ky]

I expect this has been covered before, but the truth is I have never mastered the search feature on this site no matter how many times I tried.

For the last fifty years I've been told John Deere tractors MUST have John Deere oil. Or else! This happens, that happens, brakes fail, clutch packs fail, transmissions fail, you name it. I still have to wonder what is it about John Deere oil that's so different from any other brand out there? Does Deere own and operate refineries and do they have a patented "secret recipe" that no other oil company can produce?

My question really is just this. Has anyone seen or heard of any actual oil sample analyses that compared John Deere Hy Gard to trans/hydraulic fluids from Kubota, New Holland, Caterpillar, or any of the name brand oil suppliers out there?

I understand the differences between oils for wet brakes and clutches and all that. I also know that oil suppliers like Chevron, Mobil, Shell and others want to sell products to as much of the market as possible, and Deere is a large part of that market. So why can't their products be just as good even if they have to charge the same price? I'm not talking about "bargain basement" brands where who knows what goes into the bucket, but the top name stuff with the higher price tags.

 

[MTGreen]

Looks like a number of manufacturers make it to JD specs. Try what used to be jdmsds.com and now is 3Eco (PROD) - Sign In
And search for Hy-gard:
Shows a number of different manufacturers. As Shell makes a number of the products, I'm inclined to think the Shell Rotella fluid which says meets JD specs might be the same formulation as I wouldn't think they would tool up differently for two different tractor fluids. But who knows I'm just speculating here

 

[strantor]

Sounds like you've talking to folks who bleed green.

 

[nisaacs]

I think what is important here, is, with using oil recommended by the manufacturer it will be the right stuff for the uninformed. As long as you know what aftermarket is a match, you should be good. Keep in mind, there are a multitude of weights, quality and additive packages that buckets can come with.

As an example, the early JD970's with gear drive called for HY Gard 10w/30 and a 33 micron filter. The hydrostatic drive called for Low Viscosity Hy Gard 10w/20 and an 11 micron filter. Now JD just calls for Low Viscosity for all of them and discontinued the 33 micron filter.

 

[oosik]

Short story. So for six years - I gave up my '98 Harley and rode BMW. While waiting for the dealer to do an oil/filter change - I noticed that BMW branded motor oil was $16.95 per quart. My BMW R1200 GSA took six quarts. I asked the service tech if they used the BMW oil. "Hell no, that's way to expensive". They used a type of synthetic Pennzoil.

Life is a funny old dog..............

 

[Harry in Ky]

The reason this rant came to mind again was because of one particular tractor. A 6200 power quad. It's on a local horse farm, purchased used about five years ago. Does nothing but empty one spreader load of manure every day. The tractor has had a bad brake on side for some time, and recently developed another issue so it ended up at a Deere dealership for repair. Not necessarily for the brake issue. Once they discovered the brake problem suddenly the repair estimate went to $10,000 +.

Their reasoning was that he wasn't using JD oil. They insisted that his use of oil from TSC was the cause of the failure. This isn't the cheaper grade oil, it's supposedly rated to Deere specs (according to the label) and has been used in two other Deere and one New Holland wet brake tractors on that farm for years. No brake issues yet with any of them. This is getting to be an older tractor now, granted, but it's not the oldest one on the farm, and the two spreader tractors do the least actual work of any of them.

I've used that same oil myself in other people's tractors and have no knowledge that it caused a premature failure in any one of them. I suspect Deere dealers are encouraged (maybe even more than that) by Mother Deere to promote their fluids any way possible. I believe in using the right type and weight oil for the equipment and the conditions makes good sense, and for warranty purposes, the factory label/grade fluid should be used. On the other hand, I'm not ready to accept that you simply CAN'T pour oil into your tractor unless there's a leaping deere on the bucket.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Looks like a number of manufacturers make it to JD specs. Try what used to be jdmsds.com and now is 3Eco (PROD) - Sign In
And search for Hy-gard:
Shows a number of different manufacturers. As Shell makes a number of the products, I'm inclined to think the Shell Rotella fluid which says meets JD specs might be the same formulation as I wouldn't think they would tool up differently for two different tractor fluids. But who knows I'm just speculating here

Thanks but that looks like PIA to get into.

 

[oosik]

I have a Kubota tractor and JD riding mower. Both dealers say I do not have to use their branded oil to maintain the warrantee. The oils must meet their specs. Both Owners manuals list the specs the oils must meet. If there was some horrendous malfunction that could be caused by not using the branded oils - best it be highlighted in the Owners manual. Somebody is blowing a cloud of BS & smoke on you Harry.

Look in the OM. Does the oil you are using meet the manufacturers specs. Then....that is what the manufacturer recommends and it should not be the cause of the problem.

 

[Harry in Ky]

It's second hand smoke in this case. The tractor's owner is catching the flak. I just can't help getting pissed off when I hear that stuff.

 

[tom3]

Years ago my father in law had a couple JD riding mowers and I got the 'honor' of servicing them. He was pretty much a fanatic on maintenance but we looked at some brands and it turned out that the JD Hygard oil was only a dollar or two over a name brand that met specs anyway so we just used the OE oil. Things might be different today though? Sure had some high dollar filters though.

 

[Harry in Ky]

It's not just the price, although it is a consideration. The nearest dealer is seventeen miles away, while TSC is just on the edge of town, open late and on weekends. Sometimes that makes all the difference.

 

[MTGreen]

It's second hand smoke in this case. The tractor's owner is catching the flak. I just can't help getting pissed off when I hear that stuff.

Your friend needs to look up the Magnuson Moss act which prohibits the manufacturer/dealer from requiring oem oil so long as the aftermarket oil meets specs. Now granted this is only as applied to warranties and I imagine this tractor is out of warranty, so it's not a basis for legal action but he can call shenanigans with the dealership

 

[bmg88201]

When I bought my new JD mower, the salesman told me if I didn’t use JD oil I would void the warranty. I read the warranty and said nothing about having to use JD oil. Got 700 trouble free hours on my mower with nothing but Valvoline in it.

 

[strantor]

Your friend needs to look up the Magnuson Moss act which prohibits the manufacturer/dealer from requiring oem oil so long as the aftermarket oil meets specs. Now granted this is only as applied to warranties and I imagine this tractor is out of warranty, so it's not a basis for legal action but he can call shenanigans with the dealership

I've never heard of this. Thanks for sharing. I looked it up and there is a loophole, which if anyone would exploit, it would be John Deere. I'm not familiar with any company that has more contempt for their own customers, and I can't fathom why anyone buys their products.

Magnuson Moss Act protects Consumers

The highlighted section of the FTC booklet clearly says that you can’t require a purchaser to buy a manufacturer’s oil in order to maintain the warranty (whether on the engine, transmission or primary chain case). There are only two exceptions (1) you can require the use of a specific oil to maintain a warranty if you provide it free of charge (CFR) or (2) you can apply for an FTC waiver because your oil, and only your oil, would work in the specific application (US Code).

I'm sure the customer kill squad of attorneys that JD employs is bright enough to have come up with some patently bogus but legally "valid" reason why their oil, and only their oil, will work in each and every specific application.

I have no proof of this, I didn't find any evidence of an FTC waiver on the part of John Deere, but neither do I know where to look. I am just speculating based on JD's history and the MO they have created for themselves.

 

[dodge man]

It sounds like we are talking about hydraulic fluid, which is an oil, not engine oil. I choose to use JD hydraulic oil in my tractor and I used Kubota hydraulic oil when I had a Kubota. You can find a lot of information on motor oil and it’s fairly easy to pick out a good one. With hydraulic oil, it seems a little tougher to find information on them. That said I’m sure there is a lot of hydraulic fluid that is as good or better than JD’s stuff.

 

[RjCorazza]

It sounds like we are talking about hydraulic fluid, which is an oil, not engine oil. I choose to use JD hydraulic oil in my tractor and I used Kubota hydraulic oil when I had a Kubota. You can find a lot of information on motor oil and it’s fairly easy to pick out a good one. With hydraulic oil, it seems a little tougher to find information on them. That said I’m sure there is a lot of hydraulic fluid that is as good or better than JD’s stuff.

I agree. There is simply no reliable information or industry standards for trans / hydraulic oil. Terms like "Meets xxx", "Recommended for use in", and "Compatible with" do not inspire confidence.
There was a post here (?) some time ago that showed one side of a TSC product that said something to the effect of "Suitable for use in all modern equipment", and on the back lable said "Do no use in equipment manufactured after 1970" or something to that effect.

 

[daman1]

JD Hygard IS a high quality oil we've used it for many thousands of hours I've seen many analysis of this lube very stout addictive package.

Use it with confidence it is a good oil,and worth the money.

 

[ruffdog]

There are lots of articles about the yellow pail JD 303 oils.

Missouri Bans “JD 303” Tractor Hydraulic Fluid

 

[deserteagle71]

I bought my John Deere 2020 26 years ago and have changed the hydraulic oil multiple times. Walmart's "Supertech" Tractor Hydraulic is all I've ever used and have no problems with the tractor's hydraulics. But then it is an old tractor, no idea if the same oil would work well in newer machines.

 

[Harry in Ky]

It seems to me the main issue is brakes. Exactly why, I don't know. Wet brakes and wet clutches have been around as long as I've been working on tractors (long darn time). Case, IH, AC, Ford, Cat, Deere, all had them. Every one of them pushed their oil as the best product for their tractors. Okay, I get that.

In this particular case with the 6200 the thing that burns me up is the dealer shop spokesperson insisting the brake failure was caused by non Hy Gard fluid being used. I put brakes in a 5065E just this past summer. The brake lining had come totally unglued. Large flakes of it were everywhere. That tractor has had nothing but Hy Gard in it since day one. That didn't make a nickels worth of difference. Brakes wear out like anything else. Yes, the right TYPE, WEIGHT, and GRADE of oil, the condition and cleanliness, all do indeed make a difference. But not necessarily the brand on the jug.