Oil question for front axle

[toxicjeeper]

Hoping there might be an oil expert that can answer this but if kioti factory filled my front axle with hydrolic oil could I not use this ATF when I do thee 50 hour service? I was always under the impression that ATF was superior to hydraulic fluid and wasn't used simply cause of cost. I have 3 crates of thiss ATF and no use for it. I also have a crate of synthetic 80-90 but feel that the viscosity of ATF would flow better and lubricate the axle turning spindles better as they are integral to the axle.

 

[Rock Crawler]

At 50 hours on my last 3 tractors, I drain that out and replace with 80/90 gear oil. On a Kubota the manual states that you can use the Super UDT2 or gear oil. I feel that the thicker gear oil is better for the job, and it makes me feel better.

 

[grsthegreat]

I think ATF is too light for axle gearing, but i think you can call your service dealer and ask them. On new tractor you dont want to mess with a future warranty question.

when i replaced front seals, my dealer told me to use 90 weight.

 

[Username Taken]

Hoping there might be an oil expert that can answer this but if kioti factory filled my front axle with hydrolic oil could I not use this ATF when I do thee 50 hour service? I was always under the impression that ATF was superior to hydraulic fluid and wasn't used simply cause of cost. I have 3 crates of thiss ATF and no use for it. I also have a crate of synthetic 80-90 but feel that the viscosity of ATF would flowView attachment 782846View attachment 782847 better and lubricate the axle turning spindles better as they are integral to the axle.

An automatic Transmission is just one, big, Hydraulic mechanism that sees more stress in 5 minutes than your LS front end will see in its lifetime.

But there's always the question of "What's in the front end and will the ATF play well with those metals?". In a Tractor front end? I can't think of any reason not to use it

But don't take my word for it --

Mobile hydraulic fluids: 5 critical things your father never told

Josh Cosford, contributing editor to Fluid Power World, presents five critical things your father never told you about mobile hydraulic fluids.

www.mobilehydraulictips.com

ATF makes a fantastic hydraulic oil.

Automatic Transmission Fluid is used in everything from a Fiat 500 to a Ford F-150, and because of the astounding service life required by vehicle transmissions, the fluid used is some of the most high-quality lubrication available. ATF experiences such extremes in temperature, humidity and viscosity, yet can last 30,000-60,000 miles or more.

ATF is formulated for high viscosity index (the ability to maintain test viscosity over a wide temperature range), and has excellent water control properties, allowing the fluid to hold more water in saturation before being released to create corrosion. Also, the additives in ATF are formulated to improve lubricity, anti-foaming, shear stability and resistance to oxidation.

ATF is a premium hydraulic fluid, but also comes at a premium price, which is its major downside.

 

[Beeenvenue]

Many mechanics have touted 80w90 as having superior properties for the front axle. The viscosity can tend to allow the fluid film to persist even if the level is below the moving parts. It also resists breakdown better from whatever combination of thermal and mechanical pressure forces exist. (I ain’t no mechanic so don’t ask me why but no mechanic or mech Engr they I can find has ever said hydraulic fluid is BETTER than 80w90 for this application, but there are tons who say the reverse is true)

 

[Username Taken]

Many mechanics have touted 80w90 as having superior properties for the front axle. The viscosity can tend to allow the fluid film to persist even if the level is below the moving parts. It also resists breakdown better from whatever combination of thermal and mechanical pressure forces exist. (I ain’t no mechanic so don’t ask me why but no mechanic or mech Engr they I can find has ever said hydraulic fluid is BETTER than 80w90 for this application, but there are tons who say the reverse is true)

Kioti Factory-Fills the front diff with Hydraulic fluid, so...............

I dunno. Could be you're right.

Wonder what factory fill is on the OP's tractor?

 

[toxicjeeper]

My kioti NS 5310 I am assuming it is filled with hydraulic fluid

 

[Billrog]

It is not filled with hydraulic fluid , It's Trans Hydraulic fluid.

 

[toxicjeeper]

So it is ATF automatic transmission fluid in there but prolly not as good as automotive ATF? So confused about all these tractor specific fluids..in the old days I would 100 percent just throw some gear oil in that front axle...

 

[Username Taken]

It is not filled with hydraulic fluid , It's Trans Hydraulic fluid.

So it's Non Binary?

 

[Rockbadchild]

So it's Non Binary?

 

[Username Taken]

So it is ATF automatic transmission fluid in there but prolly not as good as automotive ATF? So confused about all these tractor specific fluids..in the old days I would 100 percent just throw some gear oil in that front axle...

Buddy of mine and I were sitting around drinking a beer or three when he told me about when he was the lead Mechanic for a big Farm. I'm talking thousands of acres. Thousands.

They had all kinds of pickers, harvesters, combines and other equipment that they used and he was responsible for keep it running. All of it.

He told me how they had an old Pickup that they kept two 55 gallon drums in. One for Oil, one for Hydraulic Fluid. So they could do field changes and additions. Sometimes the shop was many, many miles away. Over 200 at times.

The Hydraulic Drum of Oil needed to be replaced because it had been emptied so they sent it back to the shop area. The guys at the shop saw which one was empty and because it was so dusty they didn't realize it was hydraulic fluid and replaced the drum with engine oil.

He said they ran it all summer and when they replaced the drum the next time, they noticed.

Nothing ever happened. Nothing. We're talking million-dollar equipment here.

Do I recommend it? Nope. Just a funny story.

 

[Boss 302]

80w90, can't go wrong.

 

[Billrog]

Engine oil will work just fine in your hydraulic system a few backhoe owners around here used it exclusively for yrs.
I would suggest anyone saying 80/90 W oil over trans hydraulic in the front axle is only expressing an opinion not a fact.

 

[ning]

Hoping there might be an oil expert that can answer this but if kioti factory filled my front axle with hydrolic oil could I not use this ATF when I do thee 50 hour service? I was always under the impression that ATF was superior to hydraulic fluid and wasn't used simply cause of cost. I have 3 crates of thiss ATF and no use for it. I also have a crate of synthetic 80-90 but feel that the viscosity of ATF would flowView attachment 782846View attachment 782847 better and lubricate the axle turning spindles better as they are integral to the axle.

remember that the "80w90" of gear oil is on a different scale than your engine oil - 80w90 is similar to 20w50 engine oil, as far as viscosity goes:

 

[Beeenvenue]

remember that the "80w90" of gear oil is on a different scale than your engine oil - 80w90 is similar to 20w50 engine oil, as far as viscosity goes:
View attachment 782920

Only at a specific temperature.

 

[Beeenvenue]

Engine oil will work just fine in your hydraulic system a few backhoe owners around here used it exclusively for yrs.
I would suggest anyone saying 80/90 W oil over trans hydraulic in the front axle is only expressing an opinion not a fact.

I admitted as much. But it is opinion based upon quite a bit of study (at lubrication provider sites, not blogs) and conversations with mechanics and mechanical engineers who specialize in reliability.

There’s a reason that “gear oil” is named gear oil, and perhaps it’s use in low speed gears like the front axle mechanism is one application.

As for why it comes from the factory with hydraulic oil - that is to aid in exactly the opposite; you want a lower viscosity, lesser film forming material to help flush away break in particles.

Kioti allows both so by definition it will go to opinion as to which each user chooses. A well informed opinion will likely end up with the use of 80w90, but to each his own. I am only responsible for my own machine

 

[Username Taken]

I admitted as much. But it is opinion based upon quite a bit of study (at lubrication provider sites, not blogs) and conversations with mechanics and mechanical engineers who specialize in reliability.

There’s a reason that “gear oil” is named gear oil, and perhaps it’s use in low speed gears like the front axle mechanism is one application.

As for why it comes from the factory with hydraulic oil - that is to aid in exactly the opposite; you want a lower viscosity, lesser film forming material to help flush away break in particles.

Kioti allows both so by definition it will go to opinion as to which each user chooses. A well informed opinion will likely end up with the use of 80w90, but to each his own. I am only responsible for my own machine

What does Kioti use in the rear end differential??

 

[mcmopar]

I believe it's the hydraulic fluid, at least on the HST.

 

[Username Taken]

I believe it's the hydraulic fluid, at least on the HST.

And which one is bigger and badder? I'd say, the rear. Just a guess.

But Kioti does bias the front drive by a lot. 17% I read somewhere. That's a lot. Which, to me, would mean there's a lot of stress on the Front Diff.

OTOH, I'm not in 4WD unless I have to be. Some people have to be in 4WD a lot, I guess.

I would say, for them, using a good Diff Lube is a good idea.

Or not. I just don't know for sure. Engineers? Chemical Engineers? I'd take their word over mine but they're not all that and a happy meal. I'd be more inclined to take a Mechanic's word for it. The Company Engineer is more interested in keep it together until it's out of warranty.

And the Factory Fill is Hydraulic oil......!

I'd say that if you use your tractor hard, use a good 80w-90 gear lube in the front end. Using the very best in lubricants is never a bad idea, IMHO. Don't know if you can use a Synthetic or not. I don't see why not, there's no synchronizers in there, AFAIK. No 'yellow metals'...... Right? (Synthetic gear oil is hard on 'yellow' metals)

The OP was asking if he could use some ATF he's got laying around in his front diff. To that end I say, "Why Not?"

As usual, we can get off-topic pretty easy. When I say 'we' I include me.