To fix a mud hole!

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Unfortunately there is no real way to fix the slope. It is a flat swampy area. I will eventually put a culvert back behind the camera location that should stop the small trickle of water constantly moving through the mud hole. But rain and flood water will still fill the mud hole. I MIGHT be able to eek out a little better flow out the side with that water, but it it pretty darn flat in there. But if I fill the majority of the area it should facilitate drainage as the water has nowhere else to go but out the side.

are you sure?
couldn't you excavate a low area (think small pond) on one side, use the removed material to raise the road, add ditches both side, tile/culvert underneath to drain water to new low area?
cheap to do just really your labour

if you cann't relocate the water than you are left with fill/fill/fill till you get grade above the plain.

good luck... maybe its something you will just have to live with if investment in time/labour more than its worth to you. I have drained bogs 10's of acres in size to get trucks through an area - your spot looks pretty easy to make a solution.

cheers!

 

[setxjeff]

I had one of those, old timer told me only way to fill in a wet mud hole was line it with hay flakes from a square hay bales then immediately cover with Sandy 60/40. 20 years later it’s still dry and hard.

 

[airbiscuit]

Poor man's corduroy?

 

[jyoutz]

This is similar to low water creek crossings we use on forest roads. If the site is permanently or often full of water, then the most effective solution is to fill the bottom with large rock, then large gravel on top. The large rock let’s the water flow, while the top gravel is better for vehicles.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

are you sure?
couldn't you excavate a low area (think small pond) on one side, use the removed material to raise the road, add ditches both side, tile/culvert underneath to drain water to new low area?
cheap to do just really your labour

if you cann't relocate the water than you are left with fill/fill/fill till you get grade above the plain.

good luck... maybe its something you will just have to live with if investment in time/labour more than its worth to you. I have drained bogs 10's of acres in size to get trucks through an area - your spot looks pretty easy to make a solution.

cheers!

Well sure, if I wanted to rent a mini-ex, make a HUGE mess I am sure I could create a drainage solution for this. I do plan on doing whatever I can to improve the drainage. But in the end that track still goes through a low spot that will always hold water and needs to be raised up. So that is where I am going to invest the majority of my time and labor, raising the roadbed above the drainage issue. In my opinion way less work, less mess, and WAY cheaper.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

I do need to add...
This area does actually drain. If you look at the second photo you will notice an extension to the puddle in the top right side of the road, it drains out through there. So by filling this area I am essentially creating a ditch along the right side of the roadbed facilitating drainage out that side. Those puddles are just the lowest spot, so I need to raise them up.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Well sure, if I wanted to rent a mini-ex, make a HUGE mess I am sure I could create a drainage solution for this. I do plan on doing whatever I can to improve the drainage. But in the end that track still goes through a low spot that will always hold water and needs to be raised up. So that is where I am going to invest the majority of my time and labor, raising the roadbed above the drainage issue. In my opinion way less work, less mess, and WAY cheaper.

gotcha.... I assumed wrongly you were looking for a permanent fix in the same location.

like you said in post #1 you have made "half assed attempts to make it better" which didn't work after 4 years.

A permanent solution is going to make some mess and cost something.... alternately you can keep trying what you have done for the last 4 years and hope for different results but IMHO you need to get it high and dry or you will have to keep living with what you have. Small cart loads of cinder blocks etc... hasn't fixed it and doubt it will.

Or as others have said re-route around using higher ground is cheap but maybe you will not like mess that solution is going to make either.

Lots of options based on what you are comfortable doing with equipment you have access to, budget you want to spend, look you wsant to achieve, etc... all if which is personal choice.


Cheers.

 

[M59]

gotcha.... I assumed wrongly you were looking for a permanent fix in the same location.

like you said in post #1 you have made "half assed attempts to make it better" which didn't work after 4 years.

A permanent solution is going to make some mess and cost something.... alternately you can keep trying what you have done for the last 4 years and hope for different results but IMHO you need to get it high and dry or you will have to keep living with what you have. Small cart loads of cinder blocks etc... hasn't fixed it and doubt it will.

Or as others have said re-route around using higher ground is cheap but maybe you will not like mess that solution is going to make either.

Lots of options based on what you are comfortable doing with equipment you have access to, budget you want to spend, look you wsant to achieve, etc... all if which is personal choice.


Cheers.

MapleLeafFarmer,

Based on my prior experience with water, HawkinsHollow has two choices. Either change the road so the road crosses waterway at a 90 degree angle and use a pipe to channel the water under the roadway OR modify the existing muddy/ waterlogged path by forcing the water to cross the roadway at 90 degrees to the road, thru a buried pipe, and use trenches on entry and exit to the pipe to keep water of the road.

Filling the road bed with rubble will only work so long until leaves and other organic matter fill in the open spaces in the rock and then water will be back up and over the road.

The above comes from experience due to dozens of springs on my property, all running downhill to creek.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

gotcha.... I assumed wrongly you were looking for a permanent fix in the same location.

like you said in post #1 you have made "half assed attempts to make it better" which didn't work after 4 years.

A permanent solution is going to make some mess and cost something.... alternately you can keep trying what you have done for the last 4 years and hope for different results but IMHO you need to get it high and dry or you will have to keep living with what you have. Small cart loads of cinder blocks etc... hasn't fixed it and doubt it will.

Or as others have said re-route around using higher ground is cheap but maybe you will not like mess that solution is going to make either.

Lots of options based on what you are comfortable doing with equipment you have access to, budget you want to spend, look you wsant to achieve, etc... all if which is personal choice.


Cheers.

You have all the answers don't you Mr. MapleLeaf. I guess that is the danger in asking the geniuses of TNB, the only correct answer is their answer. Thanks for your help!

 

[bdhsfz6]

Years ago, I had a mud hole on the tractor road leading to my back acreage. There was no way to effectively drain it so I made it passable by raising the grade using old railroad ties. A nearby rail line was being torn out and the contractor was happy to get rid of some. I spread a load of 2B stone and laid the ties side by side perpendicular to the road with an inch or two between them to allow water to flow across. Some have rotted away over the years but the mud hole never returned.

It wasn't as long a stretch as yours though, so the scheme may not be practical for you.

 

[jyoutz]

What I described in post #24 is how we do road crossings of live streams on little used forest roads. It works well and holds up for years as long as the rock base is large and heavy enough not to sink in the mud. We run log trucks over these crossings successfully. During high water, the wheels get wet, but the crossing remains solid and not boggy.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

Years ago, I had a mud hole on the tractor road leading to my back acreage. There was no way to effectively drain it so I made it passable by raising the grade using old railroad ties. A nearby rail line was being torn out and the contractor was happy to get rid of some. I spread a load of 2B stone and laid the ties side by side perpendicular to the road with an inch or two between them to allow water to flow across. Some have rotted away over the years but the mud hole never returned.

It wasn't as long a stretch as yours though, so the scheme may not be practical for you.

WHAT!! You are saying raising up a roadbed above the level of the surrounding land will keep it dry and it will cease to be a mud hole? NO WAY!! Who would have thunk it?!?
Never thought about railroad ties. Thanks for that idea.

 

[Eagle1]

Around here they laid all concrete rail ties and then removed them because they did not work well. There are thousands sitting next to the tracks and free to use if you can haul them home. I've used a lot but there is never ending supply out there. Once you place them they don't move or rot out in a few years. I have a couple of crossings using them. High water goes over but they remain solid not muddy.

 

[bdhsfz6]

WHAT!! You are saying raising up a roadbed above the level of the surrounding land will keep it dry and it will cease to be a mud hole? NO WAY!! Who would have thunk it?!?
Never thought about railroad ties. Thanks for that idea.

The railroad ties don't dry out the hole. They stay above the level of the water providing a stable surface to ride on. I should have made that point clearer.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

The railroad ties don't dry out the hole. They stay above the level of the water providing a stable surface to ride on. I should have made that point clearer.

I understood completely. Sounds like a great plan to me, but I will probably use concrete chunks.

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

On US 93 in Nevada, there is Pahranagat Lake to the south of Alamo, Nevada. If you look at an aerial, you can see that US93 crosses sections of the lake. The Highway Department spent years hauling truck loads of 36-inch minus, 8-inch plus rock in order to build a base for US 93. The trucks would back in and dump, then a dozer would push the rock out and, roll over it until they bridged the muck. They kept hauling big rock until they bridged the muck and got several feet above high water. Then started with smaller rock and aggregate to build the roadway prism.

There are no culverts. Water migrates through the coarse rock pretty quickly. It was built in the mid sixties. Still works just fine..

 

[CobyRupert]

That looks more like a ditch than a road. I wouldn’t fill in the ditch as you’ll need one when you have a road.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Haul enough material and the rest of the road will be a mud hole so then you will need to keep hauling some for the rest of it ... soooo mine as well to start backfilling from the start.

 

[Viny]

I put a drive through a natural birch tree arbor that was nothing but sand. There was obviously some subsurface water moving through the area as enough use caused it to liquify and fail. I ended up having my gravel man dump a few loads of slag from a steel smelter in there as a foundation to build on. Worked like a champ, ended up gravel for a while then eventually paved it. Good luck!