Using backhoe ports for toplink on CK/CX

[bitbanger]

Hey all - I don't have much hydraulic experience and am a bit confused about what exactly is on my tractor and my options. It's a CX2510 with backhoe. There are two ports on the rear. To operate the backhoe I move the fender lever to "A". There is a B position, as well as center. It is not spring return to center.

Kioti is calling this a "remote". Is it actually a power beyond? I guess since they don't get looped when backhoe is off it's not PB (also no relief or tank connection). So the way it operates is the opposite port (depending on lever position) will return to tank?

Is this compatible with a hyd top link with a double-piloted check on the cylinder? I just have to make sure to return the lever to center after adjusting... or I'll go against relief in the tractor?

I asked Kioti when I ordered the tractor about adding a traditional spring return to center remote/lever but they don't offer an additional one.

Thanks!

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Yes you can use those ports on a hydraulic link. You would move the lever from center to flow which ever direction to the cylinder, and then return it to the center position. On my TYM, the 3-point wont lift unless the lever is in the center.

You probably can’t operate the backhoe without the valve with the detents. So, your choice is to see if you can get a self centering valve to run the 3-point with, and then figure out how to secure the valve handle when you run the backhoe. Or leave the detent valve on to run the backhoe, and remember you have to move the valve to work your 3-pt.

 

[tacticalturnip]

If I'm working this out right in my head, yes, yes you should be able to use a hydraulic top link. That said, without a return to center, I imagine it would be a pain in the arse.

 

[tacticalturnip]

Yes you can use those ports on a hydraulic link. You would move the lever from center to flow which ever direction to the cylinder, and then return it to the center position. On my TYM, the 3-point wont lift unless the lever is in the center.

Ayuh, same with my Kioti.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I have the detent valve on mine, and plan to put two splitter valves on it to run the top link and one side link.

 

[bitbanger]

Just came across this, which I guess confirms it will return to tank, and that flow is blocked to three point unless it is centered. I suppose if backhoe is being operated they don't want it being actuated (since three point arms stay attached).

I'm actually not 100% sure if it springs to center when outside of detent... Do they normally? (Haven't taken delivery yet and I'm already buying accessories haha).

Also A and B ports are blocked at center, so do I really need the double piloted check on the cylinder?

 

[bitbanger]

...
You probably can’t operate the backhoe without the valve with the detents. So, your choice is to see if you can get a self centering valve to run the 3-point with, and then figure out how to secure the valve handle when you run the backhoe. Or leave the detent valve on to run the backhoe, and remember you have to move the valve to work your 3-pt.

Thanks for confirming. I see Summit hydraulics has some kits specific to CK/CX that open up some options as well. I called and they said if it's model specific that means they've actually borrowed a tractor to measure line lengths etc which is nice.

 

[Plowboy-Lurch]

Hey all - I don't have much hydraulic experience and am a bit confused about what exactly is on my tractor and my options. It's a CX2510 with backhoe. There are two ports on the rear. To operate the backhoe I move the fender lever to "A". There is a B position, as well as center. It is not spring return to center.

Kioti is calling this a "remote". Is it actually a power beyond? I guess since they don't get looped when backhoe is off it's not PB (also no relief or tank connection). So the way it operates is the opposite port (depending on lever position) will return to tank?

Is this compatible with a hyd top link with a double-piloted check on the cylinder? I just have to make sure to return the lever to center after adjusting... or I'll go against relief in the tractor?

I asked Kioti when I ordered the tractor about adding a traditional spring return to center remote/lever but they don't offer an additional one.

Thanks!

I have the exact same setup. I leave the lever in the center and move (inch) the lever towards the B or A position to extract or retract the top link cylinder. Just don't move the lever all the way to lock in A or B as you would with the backhoe or it will go against the relief as you stated. I don't know how I got along without hyd top link before.

 

[bitbanger]

I have the exact same setup. I leave the lever in the center and move (inch) the lever towards the B or A position to extract or retract the top link cylinder. Just don't move the lever all the way to lock in A or B as you would with the backhoe or it will go against the relief as you stated. I don't know how I got along without hyd top link before.

Nice. Are you using a cylinder with piloted checks, or just a straight cylinder?

 

[Everhard]

As said above - pushing the lever all the way in either direction should cause it to hold in that position. You can feel it do so. Before you move the lever that far if you let go it should spring to center. At least I believe that's the common action for the remote option.
And unless you've got the backhoe hooked up you definitely don't want to put the lever all the way over to A or B and leave it there as you'll dead-head the system and ruin the hydraulic pump.

E.

 

[bitbanger]

And unless you've got the backhoe hooked up you definitely don't want to put the lever all the way over to A or B and leave it there as you'll dead-head the system and ruin the hydraulic pump.

Not saying it's good but based on the circuit above this would simply go up against the main relief, correct? Same as holding the loader valve in full extent.

I actually made this mistake for the first time today when taking the backhoe off - I was readying to pull away after removing the BH and noticed the bucket wasn't raising very fast/and of course the slight noise. Quickly realized what it was, but the fact that the machine will move (HST pump separate) and loader still operated, worries me I'll forget even longer in the future. The valve is very easy to mistake for the 3pt also. Something I'll just have to get used to.

 

[bitbanger]

I finished my toplink and thought I'd just follow up with some info that may be helpful to others in the future.

The cylinder I chose is a 20-7/8" to 31-7/8" from Agri-Supply. I am running Pat's Easy Connect (add's 4") so not only did I need a little extra base length, I also wanted some extra stroke for boxblade smoothing with it's rear blade. I technically "lost" about an inch retracted by not using the factory toplink + Pat's, but I'm still ahead from stock range retracted (without Pat's).

Category 1 Hydraulic Top Link 20 7/8" - 31 7/8"

I had hoses made locally using 1/4" line. They didn't stock any BSPP banjo but I'm happy with this setup. One line is 27" the other 28". FYI the rear remote couplers are technically 1/2" ISO 7241-1 Series A (aka Parker 6600). This is a handy ID chart: https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/qd_sizechart.pdf

 

[Everhard]

I'm not an expert but I believe if you left the rear remote dead-headed long enough it will damage the pump eventually? Anyway as you noted it decreases performance of upstream hydraulics and anything after it won't work. (3pth) Something to keep in mind if you're trying to figure out "what that odd/different" sound is and why things aren't working as they should.

Nice job on the toplink.

 

[MaxLee]

Hello ... little behind on this , going to be getting a CK2620 in a few weeks when it comes into dealer. I ask them same question and reply was they don't use the spring rear remote.
So what I am getting from reading this post is you just need to use the lever for up or down (in or out) and always return to center, never let it lock into the A or B position ?

Thanks

 

[Everhard]

Correct, with the top link attached don't leave it in A or B position. Once you've lengthened or shortened the top link to the desired length then move the lever back to center. Even if that's the full contraction or extension of the cylinder make sure you center the control.

E.

 

[MaxLee]

OK, I appreciate the confirmation. I don't see that as a big deal for the rear remotes

 

[bitbanger]

Hello ... little behind on this , going to be getting a CK2620 in a few weeks when it comes into dealer. I ask them same question and reply was they don't use the spring rear remote.
So what I am getting from reading this post is you just need to use the lever for up or down (in or out) and always return to center, never let it lock into the A or B position ?

Thanks

If that is indeed the only option, and it's not a power beyond port, then yes it works fine for my needs in this manner.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't specify the rear remote actuation type on a CK though? Might want to ask around some more. Maybe just not something they've done before/aren't aware of the kit part number?

 

[MaxLee]

If that is indeed the only option, and it's not a power beyond port, then yes it works fine for my needs in this manner.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't specify the rear remote actuation type on a CK though? Might want to ask around some more. Maybe just not something they've done before/aren't aware of the kit part number?

My understanding that they can add another remote that has the spring to return to center. Its a whole new set up. But if the remotes are already there I will just use like you do.

 

[tacticalturnip]

If that is indeed the only option, and it's not a power beyond port, then yes it works fine for my needs in this manner.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't specify the rear remote actuation type on a CK though? Might want to ask around some more. Maybe just not something they've done before/aren't aware of the kit part number?

Upon adding rear remotes to my CK2610 the dealer gave me actuation options. Now I have a 2610, not 2610SE, so I added the remotes. The SE models, I believe, come with one of each. I don't recall the names...

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Rear remote valves to run backhoes have detents, and stay where you put them. Rear remotes for general use have spring returns to center. You can add loader valves to run things at the rear and leave the rear remote in the detent, but you typically loose the lift on the three point. Or you could use the rear remote with the detent, and add a splitter so you can control both top and tilt with it, and return it to center after the adjustments.

On some tractors you can add another rear remote valve and have both types installed.

On my tractor I found the stock FEL valve for my tractor on eBay, for $75 plus shipping, from a guy who bought out a closed dealership.

There is a power beyond port on the factory FEL valve which runs back to the rear remote, and into the transmission. I’m going to route the power beyond to the inlet of the second FEL valve, to run top and tilt. Then route the Power Beyond from it to the transmission. I’m waiting for a joystick, and cables to show up, before I figure out how/where I’m mounting everything.