NH TC33DA Starter Problem

[bellzey]

Intermittently, the starter would not engage when the key was turned. the starter relay clicked but the starter motor would not engage. After repeated attempts, the engine started. Weeks might go by before it happened again. I have seen this before on other starters when there is a "dead" spot on the armature (Tractor had less than 1000 hrs.). Replaced the starter and had no problem for a couple of years. Now it has started again (very annoying). It doesn't happen often, but it can be very aggravating (new starter has less than 250 hrs. on it). It could be a "bad contact" somewhere, but I seriously doubt it. It might by the starter bendix. but the bendix may be in the starter. I don't remember Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Harry in Ky]

My first thought would be to "jump" the starter solenoid spade directly to the battery cable post when it acts up. Make up a jumper wire that you can slip onto the spade terminal after removing the existing start wire. When you touch that to the positive cable post the starter will crank (if it's NOT the problem). It shouldn't be too hard to do if you don't have a loader. With a loader, you might need to get a little more creative.

 

[bellzey]

Thank you for your suggestion. It's worth a try since I have had the problem on two starters. It's the intermittent nature of the beast that is the problem. It might work when I do that, then again it might not. If it does work, the answer is inconclusive because it might not work the next time, and I am right back where I started. If I have the old motor, it might be worth a try to diagnose the armature before I get all greasy and skinned up.

Yes, I do have a loader, and you are right. It is a major deal to get in there to work.

 

[dieselscout80]

I think I would check the battery cables as the have been known to corrode inside the insulation.

 

[dlctcg]

I agree with @dieselscout80... Check test your battery cables; myself & others on here have multiple posts about the issue & testing it...

The other thing to check, when it is acting up, is see what voltage you are getting at the starter solenoid post on the starter when you turn the key... anything less then 12V is an issue.

 

[bellzey]

I think I would check the battery cables as the have been known to corrode inside the insulation.

Good point. Thank you for your suggestion.

 

[bellzey]

I agree with @dieselscout80... Check test your battery cables; myself & others on here have multiple posts about the issue & testing it...

The other thing to check, when it is acting up, is see what voltage you are getting at the starter solenoid post on the starter when you turn the key... anything less than 12V is an issue.

Thank you for your input. Maybe so, but voltage is likely to be constant. Turning the key on and off a dozen times and correcting the issue isn't likely to change the voltage, but you never know. Same thing with the battery cables. Possible that there might be a corrosion problem, but then again, changing the starter once before did correct the problem at least for a couple of years. However, I have been a tech. long enough to know that you never really know what the problem is until you find it. Thanks to all for the brainstorming. It's always good to exchange ideas.

 

[bellzey]

I'm still wondering about the relay. It may click, but that doesn't mean it is making a good connection (i.e ignition points). If there is corrosion on the relay contacts, turning the switch on and off a few times could possibly arc off any corrosion that is preventing a good contact. I'm not sure I believe that, but I'm open to ideas. It's cold and getting to that starter is something I really dread. The loader makes a really tight fit, and I haven't forgotten the last time I was in there.

 

[nyone]

You could also do a starter relay mod. You use the small wire on the starter to trigger a relay that would actualy power the starter.

 

[thclimer]

Intermittently, the starter would not engage when the key was turned. the starter relay clicked but the starter motor would not engage. After repeated attempts, the engine started. Weeks might go by before it happened again. I have seen this before on other starters when there is a "dead" spot on the armature (Tractor had less than 1000 hrs.). Replaced the starter and had no problem for a couple of years. Now it has started again (very annoying). It doesn't happen often, but it can be very aggravating (new starter has less than 250 hrs. on it). It could be a "bad contact" somewhere, but I seriously doubt it. It might by the starter bendix. but the bendix may be in the starter. I don't remember Anyone have any thoughts?

Have you performed the starting circuit modification which has eliminated this type of issue on many New Holland and Case tractors?

Check Post #127:

TC33D wont start

 

[oldestgoat]

I did the starter relay mod about 15yrs ago and never had a problem since. 2004 tc33da 1000hrs. Recently had to replace the ignition switch. I've often taken those types of things apart and fixed them but this one was too gone.

 

[bellzey]

You could also do a starter relay mod. You use the small wire on the starter to trigger a relay that would actualy power the starter.

Thank you, that is a good Idea, but I want to determine if the existing relay is defective first.

Consider this,
Anything that is mass produced can have a bad batch. It only takes one component. The bad or marginal components could be used over the course of many years.
You could have 2 starters made with a bad component even if the starters were made in different years.
It may also be due to a poor design.

Thank you, that is an interesting thought, and entirely possible. I have seen that happen more than once. Take out a bad part and install a new one just like it. If that is the case, I am right back where I started and a new starter right now for an intermittent problem isn't an option. New starters are expensive.

 

[Williy]

Starter for NH TC33: $77 https://www.google.com/search?q=NH+...rome..69i57.3874j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

willy

 

[nyone]

Thank you, that is a good Idea, but I want to determine if the existing relay is defective first.

What I'm describing is really just the starter relay mod. It's been done many times.

 

[bellzey]

Thank you for your input. Maybe so, but voltage is likely to be constant. Turning the key on and off a dozen times and correcting the issue isn't likely to change the voltage, but you never know. Same thing with the battery cables. Possible that there might be a corrosion problem, but then again, changing the starter once before did correct the problem at least for a couple of years. However, I have been a tech. long enough to know that you never really know what the problem is until you find it. Thanks to all for the brainstorming. It's always good to exchange ideas.

I spoke in error. You are correct. At the time I did not consider that there are 5 or 6 relays in the starter safety interlock system. When you add up the voltage drops, voltage at the starter relay will be less. Resistance across each relay can change due to environment resulting in a higher current draw and greater voltage drop. That would also explain blown fuses that others have reported. Reported elsewhere in this thread is a reference to an OEM factory relay modification to solve the problem.

 

[bellzey]

You could also do a starter relay mod. You use the small wire on the starter to trigger a relay that would actualy power the starter.

I did some research and New Holland did offer a relay upgrade many years ago, but most dealers where not aware of it at the time. Thank you again for your input. I am thinking of just putting in a momentary contact switch that bypasses the interlock system all together for those odd times when the system doesn't cooperate.

 

[bellzey]

My first thought would be to "jump" the starter solenoid spade directly to the battery cable post when it acts up. Make up a jumper wire that you can slip onto the spade terminal after removing the existing start wire. When you touch that to the positive cable post the starter will crank (if it's NOT the problem). It shouldn't be too hard to do if you don't have a loader. With a loader, you might need to get a little more creative.

Thank you for the suggestion. I think we have narrowed the problem down to a design flaw in the safety interlock system which can be modified

 

[bellzey]

You could also do a starter relay mod. You use the small wire on the starter to trigger a relay that would actualy power the starter.

You are right on the nose Nyone. My bad.

Have you performed the starting circuit modification which has eliminated this type of issue on many New Holland and Case tractors?

Check Post #127:

TC33D wont start

I have not, but you are correct about the OEM modification.

 

[bellzey]

I would like to thank everyone for their information and suggestions. I believe we can all agree that New Holland messed up with the safety interlock system. I have not decided on a course of action yet, but at least I know what I need to accomplish to correct the problem.

 

[nyone]

I would like to thank everyone for their information and suggestions. I believe we can all agree that New Holland messed up with the safety interlock system. I have not decided on a course of action yet, but at least I know what I need to accomplish to correct the problem.

No they didnt mess anything up. It's just a complex system of mechanical switches. Mechanical switches in a dirty environment can and will fail. When theh fail they typicaly fail to the safest position, in this case it's the tractor not starting. That's better than the safety switch failing in the other direction or the tractor starting when it shouldnt.