Truck & Trailer ideas to tow 14,000 and be under 26,000 pounds

[Rancher Ed]

I tried to tag a CDL truck for GCWR and the tags place demanded a statement from the manufacturer as to what the GCWR was or an MV-41 form filled out and signed by a mechanic.
IH was unable/unwilling to state GCWR, so I went the MV-41 route.

My Ram has a 19,500 GVWR. The trailer I tow has a 38,500 GVWR. Ain’t no way in hell that combination would be able to roll down the road at 58,000lbs. I have it tagged for 48,000lbs and it’ll do it, but it’s pretty well loaded.

Hay Dude,

Different states have different requirements regarding registration and I am unclear on that. My point was that if a DOT officer pulls you over and wants to do a full inspection, they will look at the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of the trailer to get a GCWR and determine if you need a CDL.

In your example if you weight 53k I thimk you would be ticketed for being over your registered weight (did not pay enough registration money) but not for any overloading?

 

[LD1]

amhicks21,

The definition above clearly states that the Class A applies to combinations of 26,001 pounds or more. If your GCWR is 26,000 or less then the Class A requirements do not apply, regardless of the size of the trailer.

I agree it is counter intuitive/illogical that you can legally pull a 14k gooseneck with a 1ton SRW pickup (11,x00 pound GVWR) but hooking the same trailer to a DRW pickup with a 13,x00 pound GVWR means you need a CDL. My personal opinion is that a better way to break down the license would be as follows, but that is getting pretty far off topic:

• General driver's license - can tow trailers up to 10,000 pounds
• Trailering License - can tow trailers with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds up to 24,000 pounds; a medical card would be required for commercial drivers (not sure about logbook requirements) but not for personal use
• Class A - Same as current CDL-A, required for towing any trailer with a GVWR of 24,001 or greater.

The general and trailering license would have the same existing 26k limit on the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

I agree that if push comes to shove.....and your average person driving a 1-ton truck towing a trailer is forced to need a class A, that I think it would be a good idea to have a separate "trailer" license for anyone with a p/u and a typical trailer.

Absolutely stupid that someone with a DRW and 18' trailer needs the same class license as someone towing a 53' trailer behind a semi weighing 80k.

But for the time being, I dont think its an issue yet in most states. I'd wager a bet that less than 10% of those that have a dually and tow a 14k+ trailer even have a class A. And half of those that do....probably already had a class-A already....and didnt attain one specifically because they have a dually and trailer

 

[Hay Dude]

Hay Dude,

Different states have different requirements regarding registration and I am unclear on that. My point was that if a DOT officer pulls you over and wants to do a full inspection, they will look at the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of the trailer to get a GCWR and determine if you need a CDL.

In your example if you weight 53k I thimk you would be ticketed for being over your registered weight (did not pay enough registration money) but not for any overloading?

Yes that’s correct. I usually run 40,000-48,000 so I am within limits of my tag and typically fine on each axle.

The point I was trying to make is sometimes it’s difficult to obtain the GCWR of quite a few older trucks so we are required to have a mechanic sign off on a form for GCWR.

One would think that might be the most important specification to know since larger trucks typically pull trailers of equipment or commodities.

 

[LD1]

We don’t have to do log books IF we stay in-state, here in PA.

What really cracks me up is a dually with a 14K trailer needing a CDL and you DON’T need a CDL for these giant diesel pusher motor homes.

Looking back on it, getting my CDL is one of the best things I ever did.

Or the 45' 5th wheel tri-axle campers that weigh 20k+ behind a dually. They get a pass but someone with a dually and 14k wanting to tow around a skidloader to make a little money is "supposed" to get a license equivalent to what a 18-wheeler needs. Its plain stupid

 

[Hay Dude]

I agree that if push comes to shove.....and your average person driving a 1-ton truck towing a trailer is forced to need a class A, that I think it would be a good idea to have a separate "trailer" license for anyone with a p/u and a typical trailer.

Absolutely stupid that someone with a DRW and 18' trailer needs the same class license as someone towing a 53' trailer behind a semi weighing 80k.

But for the time being, I dont think its an issue yet in most states. I'd wager a bet that less than 10% of those that have a dually and tow a 14k+ trailer even have a class A. And half of those that do....probably already had a class-A already....and didnt attain one specifically because they have a dually and trailer

And for that matter, there is a class B CDL which allows one to be licensed to drive something like a tri-axle with no trailer over 10k.
There should be a license requirement for these “in between” situations or much better yet, raise the 26K limit to 33k since todays trucks are so much safer and more capable. Still might not be a bad idea for some kind of training for that type of rig, too.

 

[Hay Dude]

Or the 45' 5th wheel tri-axle campers that weigh 20k+ behind a dually. They get a pass but someone with a dually and 14k wanting to tow around a skidloader to make a little money is "supposed" to get a license equivalent to what a 18-wheeler needs. Its plain stupid

Thats just a state bureau of transportation revenue source.

 

[Rancher Ed]

Eddie,

With the farm exemption I think your best bet will be to look for a 2005 or newer gas powered DRW pickup and get a 20k gooseneck trailer. If the gooseneck has flip down ramps you can often back a backhoe onto the trailer and the hoe pivot will swing through the space between the ramps eliminating any dragging concerns. Another option is to get a low profile trailer with super single 10k axles and drive over fenders so you still have a full 102" width.

Diamond C is a premium brand but they make if very easy to illustrate this. Other manufactures offer this option as well.
Drive Over Fenders for 102" Width
Low Profile Gooseneck Example - If you have the budget and are buying a new trailer I would recommend this one with two 10k axles, drive over fenders for the 102" width, and 28 or 30' long.

 

[4570Man]

And for that matter, there is a class B CDL which allows one to be licensed to drive something like a tri-axle with no trailer over 10k.
There should be a license requirement for these “in between” situations or much better yet, raise the 26K limit to 33k since todays trucks are so much safer and more capable. Still might not be a bad idea for some kind of training for that type of rig, too.

There’s not much difference in getting a class b CDL vs a class a. The testing vehicle required is the biggest difference. You can’t get a class b without going to truck driving school either.

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie, further to my previous post(49), will a class 7 or 6 truck work for you? EG, in New Zealand we would use a 3 axle truck on either 17.5,19.5, or 22.5 inch rims, with a long wheelbase, with a 20' - 28' deck including beaver tail and hydraulic ramps. I would recommend tandem drive for off road and a power divider(inter axle) lock.

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don't think it's a workable option. I'll need to be able to haul different things back and forth, along with hauling livestock. I already have a 16 foot cattle trailer, so the truck would be used for two different types of trailers.

I'm also leaning strongly towards getting as low a trailer as possible. The higher everything is, the more effort it will take to hold it in place. This is a picture of what I'm liking the best. It's 22 feet long, it doesn't have any folding or slide out ramps, you just drive right up on it, and it's 8 feet wide between the rails, so I can fit two round bales between the rails and not have to strap them down. I'm thinking 10 bales with one strap on the back, and then 4 or five more on top that I'll have to strap down. Strapping down round bales takes forever!!!!

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This dealer is pretty close to where I live. He's asking $9,650 for a brand new 2023 and it's at 21,000lb GVWR, 5,700lb empty weight, 15,300lbs carrying cap with three 7,000 pound axles.

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie as they (seemingly) have made this completely FUBAR, just keep your rig clean and in good order. It's usually not hard to tell a farmer from a for hire truck and asking for forgiveness is.... you know the rest.
Printing the above and keeping a copy handy in the truck and what sounds like your limited use I'd say just go for it.
In strictly economical terms, have you thought about a local making your hay on shares?

My biggest struggle with farming is finding hay. Every year I have to find new sources and waste time looking at moldy hay to find something worth spending the money on. The price for hay has doubled this last year and there's no telling if it will get better next year or not. I doubt it will come down very much.

I'm in the process of buying my brothers 40 acres that's been neglected for the last dozen years. The mesquite has taken over, and I believe he had too many cows on what was available. Once I get the cows off of there, I'll start poisoning the mesquite and spraying for weeds. The native coastal Bermuda grass is very nice there. Maybe some of the best that I've seen compared to the farms I've bought hay from. I'm told that before he bought the place, that the previous owner had a guy haying it, and the hay sold very quickly, for top dollar.

One of my brothers friends has been very helpful with the cattle. We are talking about partnering in haying the place. He has all the contacts for the area, and he's proven to be more then fair in all of our dealings so far. He is currently paying a guy $27 per bale, to bale his lease properties. I think that I will need 105 bales a year once the cows get here. It might be less as I fence in more land, but two bales a week is what I'm feeding right now. One here, and one there. If we can work out a good agreement, I'll get my hay, he'll get the rest, and it should cost me as little as possible. Today, 5 foot round bales are selling from $100 to $175 each.

Once I get my spending under control, I hope to buy my own hay equipment and start the process of learning how to do all that. But for now, paying somebody $27 per bale is super cheap and if I can reduce that even more with this partnership, I might be able to make this all work. If I had my own hay equipment, I could also bale some on my land too. But that's all down the road. Right now, I'm hoping to have something cleared this year and maybe get at least one cutting in.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don't think it's a workable option. I'll need to be able to haul different things back and forth, along with hauling livestock. I already have a 16 foot cattle trailer, so the truck would be used for two different types of trailers.

I'm also leaning strongly towards getting as low a trailer as possible. The higher everything is, the more effort it will take to hold it in place. This is a picture of what I'm liking the best. It's 22 feet long, it doesn't have any folding or slide out ramps, you just drive right up on it, and it's 8 feet wide between the rails, so I can fit two round bales between the rails and not have to strap them down. I'm thinking 10 bales with one strap on the back, and then 4 or five more on top that I'll have to strap down. Strapping down round bales takes forever!!!!

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This dealer is pretty close to where I live. He's asking $9,650 for a brand new 2023 and it's at 21,000lb GVWR, 5,700lb empty weight, 15,300lbs carrying cap with three 7,000 pound axles.

View attachment 777992


View attachment 777993

That trailer is WIDE! wonder what “farm use only“ means?

 

[Rustyiron]

Eddie that trailer you have pictured can't be 96" in between the rails. 102" is the maximum legal width and I believe that all you can squeak out of a deck between the wheel (and fenders) is in the 80" range.
Ramps on a "deckover" with a std beavertail can be real assuring the your loads not going to roll off the back.
Be careful with your "just one strap" thinking, especially for 60 miles. This is one of the easy to spot reasons for Johnny law to pull you and snoop around.

 

[Rancher Ed]

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don't think it's a workable option. I'll need to be able to haul different things back and forth, along with hauling livestock. I already have a 16 foot cattle trailer, so the truck would be used for two different types of trailers.

I'm also leaning strongly towards getting as low a trailer as possible. The higher everything is, the more effort it will take to hold it in place. This is a picture of what I'm liking the best. It's 22 feet long, it doesn't have any folding or slide out ramps, you just drive right up on it, and it's 8 feet wide between the rails, so I can fit two round bales between the rails and not have to strap them down. I'm thinking 10 bales with one strap on the back, and then 4 or five more on top that I'll have to strap down. Strapping down round bales takes forever!!!!

Facebook

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This dealer is pretty close to where I live. He's asking $9,650 for a brand new 2023 and it's at 21,000lb GVWR, 5,700lb empty weight, 15,300lbs carrying cap with three 7,000 pound axles.

View attachment 777992


View attachment 777993

Eddie,

Unfortunately for you the Texas farm exemption cuts off at 20k trailer GVRW (see post #20). It is possible the dealer can de-rate it for 21k to 20k and put a new tag on it but I think you usually have to order the trailer from the factory with the lower rating.
I would also be very leery of that trailer because it is technically over width. Here is a listing for it Tigar Trailer 96" x 20' where they advertise the 96" between the fenders. The federal max is 102" which typically results in a trailer like this have a between the fenders width of 80" to 82". Using the 82" number the tires and fenders add 20" to the trailer meaning this Tigar Gooseneck is 116" wide. I know farm use makes exceptions for wide loads but I would not want to be towing around a wider trailer like that all the time, and if you are any narrower county roads it could put you in the ditch at times.

The price is significantly higher but something like the below trailer would be a lot more versatile.
32' 20k gooseneck, fold flat ramps
32' 20k gooseneck stand up ramps
With no side rails you can load pallets, your backhoe, wide hay equipment, etc. without issues.

 

[Hay Dude]

My biggest struggle with farming is finding hay. Every year I have to find new sources and waste time looking at moldy hay to find something worth spending the money on. The price for hay has doubled this last year and there's no telling if it will get better next year or not. I doubt it will come down very much.

I'm in the process of buying my brothers 40 acres that's been neglected for the last dozen years. The mesquite has taken over, and I believe he had too many cows on what was available. Once I get the cows off of there, I'll start poisoning the mesquite and spraying for weeds. The native coastal Bermuda grass is very nice there. Maybe some of the best that I've seen compared to the farms I've bought hay from. I'm told that before he bought the place, that the previous owner had a guy haying it, and the hay sold very quickly, for top dollar.

One of my brothers friends has been very helpful with the cattle. We are talking about partnering in haying the place. He has all the contacts for the area, and he's proven to be more then fair in all of our dealings so far. He is currently paying a guy $27 per bale, to bale his lease properties. I think that I will need 105 bales a year once the cows get here. It might be less as I fence in more land, but two bales a week is what I'm feeding right now. One here, and one there. If we can work out a good agreement, I'll get my hay, he'll get the rest, and it should cost me as little as possible. Today, 5 foot round bales are selling from $100 to $175 each.

Once I get my spending under control, I hope to buy my own hay equipment and start the process of learning how to do all that. But for now, paying somebody $27 per bale is super cheap and if I can reduce that even more with this partnership, I might be able to make this all work. If I had my own hay equipment, I could also bale some on my land too. But that's all down the road. Right now, I'm hoping to have something cleared this year and maybe get at least one cutting in.

Making hay is becoming a money losing business. At least from a start-up perspective. UNLESS you have a bunch of paid off equipment or were given a lot of land, it’s very difficult business to break into.

 

[Bearsixty7]

A 14K backhoe plus 6k trailer put's you at 20K, No 3/4 pickup is rated for that, you're looking for a 1 ton SRW or DRW at the minimum, an F450 would be even better.
I also wouldn't be afraid to purchase any Ford 6.7L Powerstroke engine which started in 2011. The 6.7L Powerstroke as been very reliable and has great HP and torque for towing. The newer Ford Transmissions behind these engines are proving to be very reliable as well pulling 30-45k Gross loads.

The 6.4L I would avoid, there's a reason it was only made a few years.
The 6.0L is ok if it was left stock or had headstuds installed and the oil cooler upgraded.
The old 7.3L Powerstroke is much like the old Cummins 5.9, it will just run and run, it just isn't the most powerful engine and the older trucks that have them have much lower Towing capacities than the 6.7L era trucks and even a DRW isn't rated high enough for your needs.

Ram also has Trucks with the 6.7L Cummins with similar GCWR.

You can look up most years for GCWR and trailer towing capacities, Here is an example of the Fords for 2019, (We have a F350 SRW and it can tow 20,400 lbs and has a 28,700 GCWR)

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/19Towing_Ford_SuperDutyPU_Oct25.pdf

Ram has a similar tool

Ram Towing Capacity | Towing & Payload Capacity Guide

Explore the Ram Trucks towing & payload capacity guide. Find information like Ram 1500 towing capacity, Ram 2500 towing capacity, payload specs & more here.

www.ramtrucks.com

 

[LD1]

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don't think it's a workable option. I'll need to be able to haul different things back and forth, along with hauling livestock. I already have a 16 foot cattle trailer, so the truck would be used for two different types of trailers.

I'm also leaning strongly towards getting as low a trailer as possible. The higher everything is, the more effort it will take to hold it in place. This is a picture of what I'm liking the best. It's 22 feet long, it doesn't have any folding or slide out ramps, you just drive right up on it, and it's 8 feet wide between the rails, so I can fit two round bales between the rails and not have to strap them down. I'm thinking 10 bales with one strap on the back, and then 4 or five more on top that I'll have to strap down. Strapping down round bales takes forever!!!!

Facebook

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This dealer is pretty close to where I live. He's asking $9,650 for a brand new 2023 and it's at 21,000lb GVWR, 5,700lb empty weight, 15,300lbs carrying cap with three 7,000 pound axles.

View attachment 777992


View attachment 777993

Trust but verify.

I dont see any way that thing is 8' between the rails.

8'6" is still the legal max width to not have a wide load permit.

Thus MOST trailers that have a deck BETWEEN wheels are in the 80"-84" range.

 

[LD1]

That trailer is WIDE! wonder what “farm use only“ means?

I guess I should have logged into the FB instead of just looking at the pics he linked.

YEA, that trailer definitely aint road legal. its listed at 10' wide. Hence the farm use

 

[WM75Guy]

Here is why is says farm use only, so the 102" width requirements don't apply.. From the Texas DPS "A Texas Guide to Farm Vehicle Compliance" page 34. The definition of a vehicle includes a trailer with farm tags. Register it for 20,000# or less and pull it with vehicle under 26,001#, all you need is a Class C license, in Texas. See page 9.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms/Forms/CVE-13.pdf

 

[stumblinhorse]

Here is why is says farm use only, so the 102" width requirements don't apply.. From the Texas DPS "A Texas Guide to Farm Vehicle Compliance" page 34. The definition of a vehicle includes a trailer with farm tags. Register it for 20,000# or less and pull it with vehicle under 26,001#, all you need is a Class C license, in Texas. See page 9.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms/Forms/CVE-13.pdf

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View attachment 778027

Texas has all the cool stuff. 116” width trailers! I wish I had one of those.

 

[Hay Dude]

We are limited to 102” in PA, but something like hay is allowed to be more than the width of the trailer. I have hauled loads of hay, grown by me, that were 11’ wide.
Obviously, a trailer thats 96“ or 102” wide can have the commodity exceed the sides of the flatbed trailer, as long as it’s properly secured.