TC33 Starter Problem

[Noytheyah]

I just replaced the clutch in my TC33 (first time doing this job). When I got to the starter I replaced it because I think the old one was giving me problems. I would get a grinding sound sometimes while the tractor was cranking. Got the new starter on and it just spins. I changed the battery and same result. I took the starter off and bench tested the new and old, both bendixs engage and spin. I reinstalled the old stater and it now does the same thing, just spins. I unbolted the starter and “bench tested” it while connected to the tractors electric, both bendixs engage and spin just like last time. The flywheel doesn’t have any broken teeth or badly worn teeth so just in case I rotated the engine to a new spot on the flywheel. I finally tried a new battery cable and still just spins.

I did replace the 3 relays and relay terminals because mine were very corroded. I’m reasonable certain I hooked all the wires back where they came from. My lights now work and the glow plug heating circuit seems to be functioning properly. I even bypassed the starting circuit when I was testing on the tractor just to see if I got any different results. There’s very little adjustment room but I’ve installed pushed all the way down and all the way up, no change either way.

Any ideas??????

Thanks.

 

[LittleBill21]

throw a booster on it, not enough amperage does not kick out the bendix.

 

[Noytheyah]

The bendix is popping out, are
You saying it should be going out further?

 

[ruffdog]

When testing, does the bendix slam toward the nose of the starter when the armature zips up to speed?

 

[LittleBill21]

The bendix is popping out, are
You saying it should be going out further?

if the starter spins, but the engine doesn't then the bendix while installed in the tractor is not coming out, especially if you see no signs of flywheel damage

 

[ruffdog]

if the starter spins, but the engine doesn't then the bendix while installed in the tractor is not coming out, especially if you see no signs of flywheel damage

...or the bendix on both starters are slipping. The odds of that would be very rare. The bendix is just a one-way clutch. You can use a finger to see if it freely moves one way but locks up the other way.

 

[Noytheyah]

When testing, does the bendix slam toward the nose of the starter when the armature zips up to speed?

Yes, it appears it comes out about an inch or so.

 

[Noytheyah]

if the starter spins, but the engine doesn't then the bendix while installed in the tractor is not coming out, especially if you see no signs of flywheel damage

That’s what it seems and is so puzzling. Why would it activate everytime I test it while not installed? I thought maybe it was hitting the flywheel but I don’t see any evidence of it.

 

[ruffdog]

Is this starter being run backwards somehow?

 

[Noytheyah]

I don’t think so. Both bendixs advance the same distance and turn the same direction.

 

[MTGreen]

Did you remove the flywheel? If so, it's possible that the flywheel isn't seated fully against the crank and the ring gear is out of range of the starter throw.
To check this you could measure from the starter block mount face to ring gear distance and compare that with the starter mount face on the starter unit to where the gear is located with the solenoid actuated.
This could also happen if you changed the rear main seal and it didn't get seated fully and subsequently the flywheel didn't tuck in completely to the crank face. Alternatively if you heated on a new ring gear depending on the design sometimes they can be installed backwards which would also put them out of reach of the starter gear solenoid throw

 

[Noytheyah]

Honestly, I was hoping this wouldn’t be a consideration. Yes I did remove the flywheel to replace the pilot bearing. I thought I was deliberate enough to install it the same way it came off. I’m going to have to measure it now.

Is there a way to measure the bendix extension without it spinning?

 

[MTGreen]

Honestly, I was hoping this wouldn’t be a consideration. Yes I did remove the flywheel to replace the pilot bearing. I thought I was deliberate enough to install it the same way it came off. I’m going to have to measure it now.

Is there a way to measure the bendix extension without it spinning?

Yes usually there is a provision for electrically disconnecting the solenoid unit from the motor portion. Disconnect it and apply power only to the solenoid.

 

[LittleBill21]

Honestly, I was hoping this wouldn’t be a consideration. Yes I did remove the flywheel to replace the pilot bearing. I thought I was deliberate enough to install it the same way it came off. I’m going to have to measure it now.

Is there a way to measure the bendix extension without it spinning?

I think you could have gave us this up front.... so now the question is, did the starter work fine before you removed the flywheel?

 

[Noytheyah]

I think you could have gave us this up front.... so now the question is, did the starter work fine before you removed the flywheel?

Yes however, there was a “grinding” noise randomly when starting so that’s the reason I chose to replace the starter. When bench testing, I didn’t notice any grinding noise but the old starter was louder than the new.

 

[MTGreen]

Did you look closely at the ring gear? Grinding sounds likely ring gear to starter gear engagement. I've seen some abused ring gears, especially when folks start the tractor in gear because the clutch was non functional

 

[Noytheyah]

Yes, it looks fine to me although I’m not an expert. I spun the engine looking for better or worse areas but the wear looked the same. I also turned the engine a few times in between start attempts.

 

[Noytheyah]

I measured from the mating surface to the front and back of the ring gear, 13/16 and 1 5/16. I measured the bendix fully extended from the old starter and it’s at 1 1/4. So I’m pretty sure the flywheel is on correctly. I attached some pics of the ring gear and both starter gears. The old one is worn pretty bad, looks like that’s the reason for the grinding I was hearing before.

 

[MTGreen]

Tooth profile on the new one looks quite a bit different than the old one. Have you tried bolting back in the old starter and seeing if that works?

 

[Noytheyah]

Tooth profile on the new one looks quite a bit different than the old one. Have you tried bolting back in the old starter and seeing if that works?

Yes and it’s does the same thing now which is beyond puzzling. When the starters are connected to the battery they spin fast. When they’re on the tractor they seem to be just barely spinning along. You can even hear what sounds like it speeding up and slowing down. I sanded down the metal that makes contact with the starter frame, I changed batteries, I even hooked up the battery directly to the starter and jumped it nothing works it’s as if somehow being mounted on the tractor is robbing power from the tractor. There’s no way I can visually confirm that the bendix is even extending. Sooo puzzled.