How does an HST compare in pulling power with the same tractor and a gear trans?

[MinnesotaEric]

would be good if you actually used a gear shift to compare to. I've cut down trees and been in this same position and found that it is much faster and easier to just cut the tree off and take it out in two pieces.

Then I wouuld be out of the cab using a chain saw, and making at least two or more trips getting in and out of the cab to fiddle around with a chain being used to drag the tree bits out of the woods. In this case, immediately to my right was a slash pile with no room to pull using a chain anyway.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Only place I've found a hydro to be better, is in a lawnmower. At least then the blades are so loud I don't have to listen to the hydro. lol

 

[bnold]

You do realize that today, to get a CDL, you have to have a special endorsement for a standard transmission???

30+ years for me with either a 13 double over or an 18 speed.. My personal big truck has a 13 double over in it.

Is it an endorsement or just not a listed restriction?

My CDL test was before that change.

 

[5030]

Is it an endorsement or just not a listed restriction?

My CDL test was before that change.

Not sure which actually. I don't have that issue either.

 

[bnold]

Quad range in a Deere 4240, don’t miss that thing one bit.

Gear on a L3301, missed - zero

Shuttle on a L4701, missed - zero

Hydro on the L6060, much better. No lack of power for a machine of that size.

All on applications, where I currently live there are no flat spots, trees everywhere, lots of loader work and mowing. Hands down, 100% faster, more efficient work with the HST +. Loader work with that ‘+’ is exceptional to have that split gear. A fixed gear tractor means going slower basically all of the time, where an hst I can accelerate to the next obstacle, slow down, cut close to the tree and accelerate to the next. Perfect.

The larger Deere was mainly a pasture queen with some limited loader work, very fatiguing doing loader work, not it’s primary goal in life, it liked straight lines, long distances towing stuff…

Also, have large 100+ hp New Holands, Masseys, and JDs on the family ranch (not personally owned like the above), they are all shuttles, fitted to the hay work that they were purchased for. Not woods, limited hills, loaded work is just transporting hay. Shuttle is just fine for that.

 

[Edward Romero]

 

[4570Man]

Is it an endorsement or just not a listed restriction?

My CDL test was before that change.

It’s not listed as a restriction. Same for air brakes.

 

[Edward Romero]

It’s not listed as a restriction. Same for air brakes.

I think that restriction is on for a Commercial License

 

[Edward Romero]

It’s not listed as a restriction. Same for air brakes.

That endorsement would apply to Commercial Class C only. I’ve had those endorsements when I had a commercial License Class B for busses. They have Commercial Class C with Passenger endorsements for vans. Fairly sure on this but I could be wrong.

 

[SPYDERLK]

When it comes to the ultimate load being pulled the HST will probably win out. HST will retrain traction better at the start.

More controllable torque delivery yes, but as you go into adding ballast and counterweight, loader and a loader load you fairly promptly encounter situations where you cant apply enough torque to the wheels to move - even in low range. The relief valve in the HST just opens and youve got to find a work around to proceed. Typically the max wheel torque deliverable from a comparable gear tractor is much higher. I find that ~ 2nd or 3rd gear of an 8 speed will exceed the torque limit of a 3 range HST.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

More controllable torque delivery yes, but as you go into adding ballast and counterweight, loader and a loader load you fairly promptly encounter situations where you cant apply enough torque to the wheels to move - even in low range. The relief valve in the HST just opens and youve got to find a work around to proceed. Typically the max wheel torque deliverable from a comparable gear tractor is much higher. I find that ~ 2nd or 3rd gear of an 8 speed will exceed the torque limit of a 3 range HST.

I've never had a problem.

 

[5030]

Cute little tractor.....

 

[4570Man]

That endorsement would apply to Commercial Class C only. I’ve had those endorsements when I had a commercial License Class B for busses. They have Commercial Class C with Passenger endorsements for vans. Fairly sure on this but I could be wrong.

A have a class A but I have a 5th wheel restriction because I took the test in my dump truck. If your testing vehicle doesn’t have a manual transmission and air brakes you get those restrictions as well.

 

[bnold]

That endorsement would apply to Commercial Class C only. I’ve had those endorsements when I had a commercial License Class B for busses. They have Commercial Class C with Passenger endorsements for vans. Fairly sure on this but I could be wrong.

Ah ok.

Mine currently just says A-Comb / M-Motorcycle.

No restrictions or Endorsements.

I have heard that new applicants if testing without air brakes or manual trans will get automatic and air brake restrictions, but I haven’t actually seen it.

 

[Cougsfan]

The results of this thread so far; Those who love geared transmissions still love them. Those who love HST's still love them. And some of us could live quite happily with either. Pretty much exactly the same results as before the thread was started.

 

[Hoobie]

The results of this thread so far; Those who love geared transmissions still love them. Those who love HST's still love them. And some of us could live quite happily with either. Pretty much exactly the same results as before the thread was started.

Bingo!

 

[ArlyA]

I'll say it again, HST work best for some jobs but loose some HP to inefficiency. Geared trannies work better for other jobs and loose very little HP. Neither are prefect but both have there place.

 

[LD1]

HP is rarely a factor when trying to see how much something can drawbar pull. Weight and traction are. If HP is your limiting factor, you are in the wrong gear or range(HST).

I can spin all the tires in low range on a HST. A gear tractor can do the same. So two tractors, same weight, same tires, both capable of spinning tires....I fail to see how one will outpull the other. When you already cannot get ALL the power to the ground.....loosing a little due to HST losses is irrelevant.

When it matters is trying to pull something at a specific speed.....like trying to pull a disc at 6mph and up a slight hill. If you struggle to maintain speed with a HST, then the gear version of the same tractor WILL do better.

But the notion that a gear tractor can pull significantly more.....or in the case of the messicks video (which was terrible BTW) claiming that the gear can pull 50% more.

Sure, that may be true in high range....but who pulls in high range?

I pull a 3-14 plow with my HST MX5100. By that notion I should be able to pull a 4-14 or a 4-16 easily had I opted for the GST trans.

 

[Rockbadchild]

HP is rarely a factor when trying to see how much something can drawbar pull. Weight and traction are. If HP is your limiting factor, you are in the wrong gear or range(HST).

I can spin all the tires in low range on a HST. A gear tractor can do the same. So two tractors, same weight, same tires, both capable of spinning tires....I fail to see how one will outpull the other. When you already cannot get ALL the power to the ground.....loosing a little due to HST losses is irrelevant.

When it matters is trying to pull something at a specific speed.....like trying to pull a disc at 6mph and up a slight hill. If you struggle to maintain speed with a HST, then the gear version of the same tractor WILL do better.

But the notion that a gear tractor can pull significantly more.....or in the case of the messicks video (which was terrible BTW) claiming that the gear can pull 50% more.

Sure, that may be true in high range....but who pulls in high range?

I pull a 3-14 plow with my HST MX5100. By that notion I should be able to pull a 4-14 or a 4-16 easily had I opted for the GST trans.

I think this is 100% accurate ... Its a good perspective. I have many hours of moldboard plowing and pulling disk with my tractor and yes you are right I never ran out of power I only ran out of power at a certain speed... I find the low range is too slow and the mid range is not strong enough while I pull something. Since I got my tractor I have been saying, its not strong enough, but really it is, its just too slow. I have said, I should've bought a gear tractor to get the extra few HP on the PTO but I have said more often I should've bought a bigger tractor which the last one is the real issue ...

I just find I would have more speed selection for the strength required with a gear traction. but maybe I am wrong about that since I haven't tested it.

 

[5030]

If Kubota had made a Hydro in the size of tractor I require, I would have probably bought it but they don't, so I didn't. HST's are inherently easier to operate than a gear drive tractor, especially for a gal, or at least that is the case with my wife.