Thoughts on this guy’s experiences

[85txaggie]

I am new to tractors and have spent time looking at Kubota, JD, Kioti and now LS tractors. i have 5 acres and have settled on a Compact TLB to help me maintain it. I need a brush hog to cut the back 3 acres and the backhoe to dig some water line trenches, pull stumps, etc.

Due to the current times, neither Kubota dealerships I visited can tell me when they can get a backhoe for a B2601. The JD 2025R seemed like a lot of money for a smaller tractor than the Kubota. Being an engineer, I also didn’t like the fact that the gooseneck arms of the HST pedals were plastic. Wasn’t really impressed with Kioti, not sure why. This led me to LS. I really liked the MT225S. The pricing was good and the size seem perfect for my projects.

Being an engineer, I started Searching the net for reviews on LS tractors. Overall everything seems top notch. Then I found this guy‘s videos. He has experience 4 structural failures of his backhoe. 4 Videos of LS Backhoe failures. His 1st, 3rd and 4th video are also major structural failures. It seems like his backhoe is made from very low grade of carbon steel and maybe on the thin side the way it buckles. The 2nd failure video is a weld on the actuator.

What are your thoughts on his experiences? He hasn’t experienced the same failure twice which kind of surprises me considering how severely they failed. Each failure is a different component and different failure mechanics. Buckling failure versus bearing (load, not an actual bearing) failure, versus cracking (fatigue?).

To be honest, all of this is scaring me away from LS.

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[crashz]

I have no stake in LS, so that should tell you something. But it seems like they are a very good tractor brand that needs time to establish. Generally, it seems as if owners are very happy with them. But I think the attachments may be made by other companies (will be corrected here shortly).

Jeff may be a great guy, and maybe they used crappy steel, but four major structural failures points strongly to a user problem, not machine. Not a lot of action in the videos, just carnage at the end. First thing I see that is a glaring problem is that a small backhoe is mounted on a good size tractor with a huge bucket.

And who knows how he's operating it.

Some people can break an anvil...

 

[alexpops]

I've got an LS xr4150 ... happy so far. No experience with their hoe (have a separate excavator for that work) but some of their peripheral metal might be questionable. I bought mine used at auction in 2016, so don't know how the previous owner used it (other than he had a tree service from memory). My grill guard was bent when I bought it to the point of not being able to open the hood unless I loosened the attachment bolts. I'm guessing he pushed something without the FEL attached, or something fell out of the bucket (swung too far) & hit the top of the guard. I've also seen online videos of someone who had the same issue with their guard & they welded extra plate to stop it from bending. I would go with crashz's comment. You can break anything by making it do more than it's designed to do. Was he using the stabilizers for heavy loads or not? the cracked subframe suggests no. He's just lucky it was only the subframe & not the tractor the way some of the 3pt hoes will crack the tractor frame. A tractor backhoe is NOT the same as a dedicated excavator. Good for trenching, digging out stumps & rocks (with stress on DIGGING). But tractor hoes aren't the thing to use for levering out big boulders & stumps or knocking down trees -- especially without the stabilizers engaged. It's also possible that LS orders their peripherals from someone in China & didn't check the quality of what was delivered. My FEL is fine, bucket's fine, PTO & 3 point's fine & mechanicals are fine. I wouldn't hesitate getting another one if I needed another tractor.

 

[Carl_NH]

Agree with both comments alxepops and crashz - especially the size of the tractor vs the BH, and these aren't really a TLB - they are a tractor with a backhoe attached.

The true TLB with the full frame construction commercial grade are really only in the Kubota lineup - the B21, B26, and L39/47, M62 TLB with dedicated loader backhoe setup.

Although other smaller units like the LS M225, and Kioti 2420, and Yanmar 3 or 424 series are very close with the tight 4 point mount, and then Kubota offers the BH77 with a subframe and 4Point mount set up that works well. These are all good machines too for general BH work.

So if you want the most rugged, go for a commercial TLB series in Kubota - you can find them used too.

 

[85txaggie]

Thanks for all of your comments. It bothered me that he had different failure mechanisms, pointing out that it wasn’t a single weakness and maybe operator error.

 

[Diggin It]

These are homeowner/hobby farm, urban ranch type backhoes. They are not construction grade TLBs. They will do small tasks quite well. They will not do large tasks. I've dug out several small stumps --- 8-12" or so. I would not try a 24". I've also buried two adult cows and a dog (neighbor's, not mine) and have dug two trenches close to 100' long and 20-24" deep, as well a couple of shorter ones. It's a small, 12" wide bucket, so it takes time.

My ground ranges from red rock gravel, densely packed with clay to moderate soil and from rock hard, almost concrete to slippery sticky mud depending on time of year and rainfall.

I've blown one hydraulic hose and had trouble with joystick rod ends, but no major issues. Nothing bent or broken. I'm at 4 years and just under 500 hours.

I believe the 225 is the next step up from mine, so the BH with it may be even more capable.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I had the MT125 like Digginit's above and installed a complete septic system, 100's of feet of trenching, and numerous grading projects. Never one problem in 220 hours / 2 years. I sold it for $500 less than what I paid for it.

Then I purchased an XG3025 during the transition to the MT225E. The BH was substantially stronger. Have that tractor with over 340 hours now, and about 200 hours of that using the BH. Not one problem. I have the factory thumb on it and it works great. Buried 2 draft horses, more trenching, stump digging, engine hoist, plenty of use.

I would wager that guy had inflicted multiple user abuses to that BH! He definitely did something wrong to cause that damage!

 

[Williy]

Sounds like the guys with the 4 or 6 cylinder jeeps that
installed V8's with about 4+ times the power and wonder
why they twisted their axles off! Lots of power small back
hoe bucket too big something has to give! Looks like the
backhoe is way too small for his machine!
Wood's attachments are very well made. My bach hoe &
brushhog are made by Wood's very sturdy I'll never wear
them out

willy

 

[scaredychicken]

Okay, I did the sub-compact tractor shopping (TLB) a few years ago, 2018 ... JD, Kubota, Kioti, NH, Massey, and McCormick. LS was not an option, I've never seen them around here.

I settled on Kubota BX23S, the TLB package (all one unit essentially). I love it, I don't think that you can go wrong with Kubota. That was my preference, especially considering Dealer and Location.

The B2601 is a slightly bigger machine (B series) but you are also buying the Backhoe separately from the Tractor-Loader.

If you already know that you want the TLB combination, then why not consider one of the TLB packages that several Brands offer? Your application might require a larger set-up, but I have yet to need more than my BX23S can manage. Just my thoughts.

Happy Hunting



.

 

[Cycledude]

Yes those videos show some pretty serious failures. My LS is nearly 2 years old with a little over 200 hours on it and I haven’t broken or bent anything but I don’t have a backhoe on it, just a front end loader and some non LS three point hookup stuff.
So far I’m very happy that I chose LS.

 

[Mrsig]

I have had mine for almost 2 years with 226 hours I have used my backhoe for many hours of large stumps removal and hundred of holes and trenching. I spent a day and half just loading 2 flatbed trucks to make a beach on one side of my pond.
I have the thumb on her and have moved tons of big rocks all so.

I have had not 1 problem with the backhoe! This is the best tractor I have ever got in this size!

 

[mikester]

Being an engineer, I hate wasting money. I want to pay a fair amount for good quality construction, safety and reliability. I expect service, reasonable cost of regular service items and availability of spare parts in case of breakdown.

I can tell you I broke a spindle on my 30 year old LandPride mower on Sunday after hitting a rock while bush hogging tall grass. I called the Kubota dealer Monday morning. I had a brand new spindle assembly in hand Tuesday morning and paid CDN$240.

Can you get parts for a 30 year old LS the next day from your local part stocking dealer? I know I would have to drive over an hour to find a LS dealer selling 1 or 2 tractors from his back yard garage. I have two Kubota dealers within a 20 minute drive, four within an hours drive. I also have multiple local NH, JD and MF dealers.

I am doubtful I would get the same level of service from my closest LS dealer. LS isn't on my radar.

It's your money, spend it the way you want to.

 

[Supraman0614]

I just got done excavating for a new foundation for an addition on my house (~16' x 24' x 5ft deep) with my LS backhoe (looks like the same as the one in the videos), including 100' of trench for daylighting the footing drain, without any issues. My soil is mostly clay with some large rocks. I have used the same BH for digging out a 36" silver maple stump that I could barely pick up with the pallet forks without issue. I've probably dug a mile or two of drain tile into my field and pasture, again with no issues. The only hiccup I've had with mine is the same as Diggin it mentioned: the joystick rod ends failed due to moisture contamination.

I am an Engineer as well, and I am very careful to keep everything greased and maintained. I expect that my equipment will hold up and perform as it was designed to do. I don't try to push the machine past its limits, but I'm not easy on it either. I have had no structural failures in seven years of ownership and usage. As others have mentioned, there's little context to the failures in those videos. It is entirely possible that he simply got a lemon BH. I don't know how he uses it, so I can't comment on whether it is his fault or the equipment. I would not hesitate to purchase an LS with a backhoe to maintain your acreage as you describe. As long as you don't expect it to perform like an excavator or full size backhoe, you will be able to get done what you need to.

 

[RSR]

I'll add my 2 cents. In the first video, it was very clearly a bending failure due to a lateral load. Backhoes are designed to dig, not push things to the side, which he was clearly doing. My guess is he was pushing sideways on a tree stump (he claims he has used it to remove stumps), and something gave. That's not a design failure, but operator misuse/abuse.

In video 3, it's interesting in that he clearly shows the underside of the boom. There are very clear scratches and deep gouges in it around the pin that failed. Ask yourself how you get deep gouges in the metal on the underside of the boom? Again, in my mind that clearly points to abuse. In addition, the paint around that pin is flaking/broken off in multiple locations. Paint doesn't just "flake off" unless there is an underlying material problem (possibly), or it has been abused and subjected to repeated contact. I could easily see getting those scratches on the underside of the boom by using it as a thumb to move tree stumps. I could also easily see a root from a tree stump getting hung up on that pivot bushing, breaking it.

You'll notice, in all of his videos he doesn't give details of exactly what he was doing, even in spite of inquiries in the comments. He only proffers generalities. "I was digging a hole, or pulling a stump."

Those two observations indicate a pattern to me.

I will note, while I don't have a backhoe, I have done some digging and excavating of massive rocks with my front loader, and gotten into situations where I've thought, "Well, I may end up with a twisted loader after this, and there's no way I'm making a warranty claim because this is well beyond what it was designed for." Nevertheless, I have yet to cause the slightest damage of any kind (and have learned to take it a little easier).

 

[rodneyn]

I am new to tractors and have spent time looking at Kubota, JD, Kioti and now LS tractors. i have 5 acres and have settled on a Compact TLB to help me maintain it. I need a brush hog to cut the back 3 acres and the backhoe to dig some water line trenches, pull stumps, etc.

Due to the current times, neither Kubota dealerships I visited can tell me when they can get a backhoe for a B2601. The JD 2025R seemed like a lot of money for a smaller tractor than the Kubota. Being an engineer, I also didn’t like the fact that the gooseneck arms of the HST pedals were plastic. Wasn’t really impressed with Kioti, not sure why. This led me to LS. I really liked the MT225S. The pricing was good and the size seem perfect for my projects.

Being an engineer, I started Searching the net for reviews on LS tractors. Overall everything seems top notch. Then I found this guy‘s videos. He has experience 4 structural failures of his backhoe. 4 Videos of LS Backhoe failures. His 1st, 3rd and 4th video are also major structural failures. It seems like his backhoe is made from very low grade of carbon steel and maybe on the thin side the way it buckles. The 2nd failure video is a weld on the actuator.

What are your thoughts on his experiences? He hasn’t experienced the same failure twice which kind of surprises me considering how severely they failed. Each failure is a different component and different failure mechanics. Buckling failure versus bearing (load, not an actual bearing) failure, versus cracking (fatigue?).

To be honest, all of this is scaring me away from LS.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Carey

Regardless of the tractor manufacturer the backhoe will not be the same as if you were buying JCB or Case backhoe industrial unit. It will be effective to do many jobs but not with speed and force you get with industrial backhoe. I have put 125 hours on my LS 3135 with backhoe digging out out pole barn posts putting in permafrosts concrete columns digging 5 and 6 foot holes. I have had no issues with hoe bending or breaking any part of it. It’s been workhorse overall. Again it’s not and industrial backhoe and you must understand this as you are digging. The industrial hoe has more force designed to be quick and effective. Just know this as your lining up your backhoe jobs. I ran an industrial hoe for years you can tell the difference. Though I will say the LS hoe is very effective tool for its value. I had no issues on downtime from breakage as others have stated. I also ordered my tractor from LS with backhoe attached it was not put on by the dealership. I have return line directly to the sump over connection to the hydraulic stack. This is different from others I have seen. I also have MT225S no backhoe but a MMM deck. Now passing 300 hours. The unit is excellent piece of equipment. Used it last year to landscape sons house. Moved 80 tons of dirt with unit no disappointments. Did not have fluid in tires but knew the bucket full could not pass steering wheel height. I also recommend wheel spacers for the unit if not running a MMM. LS parts are readily available a lot of their models are using past components so parts should not be a issue unlike some manufacturers who discontinued model and redesigned from ground up. They are a value brand I have two units no issues to report.

 

[Tony H]

These little 3 point hitch backhoes are not made to take a beating. Grabbing and yanking roots and trying to dig in Rocky clay will not make your Lil backhoe happy. Not on any of these Sub Compacts

 

[kyryder]

You may want to consider TYM. There backhoe is made very tough, I greased mine last week and stopped counting zerks when I got to 27. On a CUT get the backhoe with the tractor, the subframe is mandatory or you can break tractor into two large pieces.

 

[Fixastuff]

Being an engineer,

Being an engineer,

Thank you for your thoughts.

Carey

Has anyone ever met and engineer that didn't make sure you knew their occupation? Kinda like vegans.

Being an engineer maybe you should draw all the tractors up in Autocad and run stress tests?

Please know I'm just joking so don't take me serious!

Edit: I just noticed there are a few more prowd engineers in this thread. Maybe they need a subforum

 

[85txaggie]

You may want to consider TYM.

I really would like to see a T25 in person. Looking at their website, I think the controls and dash look the best. Loader 3rd function grip is pre-installed, just needs to be hooked up and valves installed. My biggest complaint about looks of the MT225S is the orange and yellow controls look like cheap plastic, the way a lot of cheap Harbor Freight tools look. Same with Kioti. The TYM tractors look high end.

But unfortunately, no dealers have the T25 around me. As it is, the closest TYM dealer is 70 miles away. I called dealers up to 150 miles away looking. The Kioti, LS, Kubota and JD dealers are 8-20 miles.

 

[85txaggie]

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and comments.