California Targets Private Property With Latest Water Well Fees, Charges: Report

[ponytug]

It would take a mighty powerful incentive to make me live in s place famous for catching fire every year that comes.

It is a big state, with lots of wild lands and national forest. So the fact it might have 50 times more fires than Conneticut might just be area alone....I think that it is quite pretty in many places, and I think that there are lots of pretty places elsewhere, too!

The five largest wildfires in US history happened in California(4.5M acres, 2020), Texas(4M acres, 2011+), Idaho/Montana(3Million acres, 1910), Michigan(2.5Million, 1871).

List of wildfires - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given the current drought around the country at the moment, I would say that unfortunately fires are in the cards for much of the country.

Here is a map of wildfires from 1980-2014;

The management of forests has favored large fire conditions for decades, and it will take awhile to change forest management practices to favor lower intensity fires through ground level brush clearance by fire or mechanical means. That would mean more frequent fires, but smaller, and more easily contained.

I think that firefighting is a tough tough job, and I am thankful for all of the people who are willing and able to do it. I know that the few times I have hauled fire fighting hoses have been about the most strenuous job on the ranch. I couldn't do it in a Nomex suit, in heavy smoke for 24 hours at a stretch.

Stay safe out there.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

How is anyone going to be able to clear forests of brush and vegetation? Where’s the money going to come from? I have a pretty dense 20 acre forest. I don’t see that as possible. Translate that to hundreds of millions of acres of forest lands across the country. Again, I don’t see it as possible to have a healthy forest with no brush, decaying plant matter, etc.

 

[Eagle1]

Around here the when they log national forest they are not asked to clean up at all. They drop what looks good or is marked for cutting. If the tree has defects it just lays there. All tops and bad wood is left where it is cut. Then they hire someone to slash the place clean. You wind up with few trees not damaged by the skidder and the ground covered 2' deep with dry wood. Pretty good fuel for fires with no fire breaks at all.

 

[tacticalturnip]

You don't own a damn thing anyhow; stop paying property taxes and see how quickly you're booted off 'your' property. So just bend over, relax, bite down on a small block of wood, and let Big Daddy Government track and tax your water usage. It's better for all of us in the long run, right? So just take it.

 

[ultrarunner]

It is a big state, with lots of wild lands and national forest. So the fact it might have 50 times more fires than Conneticut might just be area alone....I think that it is quite pretty in many places, and I think that there are lots of pretty places elsewhere, too!

The five largest wildfires in US history happened in California(4.5M acres, 2020), Texas(4M acres, 2011+), Idaho/Montana(3Million acres, 1910), Michigan(2.5Million, 1871).

List of wildfires - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given the current drought around the country at the moment, I would say that unfortunately fires are in the cards for much of the country.

Here is a map of wildfires from 1980-2014;

The management of forests has favored large fire conditions for decades, and it will take awhile to change forest management practices to favor lower intensity fires through ground level brush clearance by fire or mechanical means. That would mean more frequent fires, but smaller, and more easily contained.

I think that firefighting is a tough tough job, and I am thankful for all of the people who are willing and able to do it. I know that the few times I have hauled fire fighting hoses have been about the most strenuous job on the ranch. I couldn't do it in a Nomex suit, in heavy smoke for 24 hours at a stretch.

Stay safe out there.

All the best,

Peter

Plus poison oak both contact and smoke can be serious...

The northern CA/Oregon fire had temps around 100F

Grueling and hazardous no matter how you look at it.

 

[ponytug]

Plus poison oak both contact and smoke can be serious...

The northern CA/Oregon fire had temps around 100F

Grueling and hazardous no matter how you look at it.

I literally had the signup form in my hand to be a volunteer firefighter when the local captain said something about poison oak smoke, and I realized that I really wasn't a good fit. Like a really bad fit. I am incredibly allergic to poison oak.

@MossRoad Yes, the Forest service is rethinking their spending and grappling with harder to raise funds for prevention rather than disaster or fire fighting. But the hurdle is redoing the budget, and transitioning from preventing fires at all costs to reducing the intensity of fires. Personally, I would expect a mix of mechanical and human underbrush clearing, and controlled burns in the wet season for brush reduction.
e.g. Fire Management - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

History of wildfire suppression in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't hold your breath, but I think it is clear that the current practices aren't working well.

All the best,

Peter

 

[thclimer]

I lived about 70 miles east of LA about 25 years ago and was amazed at how careless everyone was with water. When I was lived in southern California between April and October there was typically no rain so the only vegetation that was green was water by people and people were watering what I thought was quite a bit.

I also remember watching a program on PBS about the bristlecone pine trees which live in the sierra mountains at higher elevations. They are some of the oldest tress in the world and if I'm remembering correctly they were able to overlap the tree rings from currently living tress with ones that were dead to go back in time 8,000 years. In doing so they noted that the last 200 years were some of the wettest years that the tress had ever experienced! My first thought was wow, so if you think its dry in California now, just imagen how dry it was before everyone moved there in the last 200 years!

It was also difficult to convince "locals" that on the east coast water and vegetation are constant threats to your property/house. If you don't cut a filed in a relatively short time (20-30 years) it will be a forest and you better have the ground around your house sloped properly or its always going to be soaking wet.

 

[Jstpssng]

Many of the tree species out west thrive because of periodic fires. Recent practices of suppression have actually made conditions worse. It's so much different out there than here, I wouldn't attempt to understand how to make the area less prone to fires.

 

[Egon]

How is anyone going to be able to clear forests of brush and vegetation? Where’s the money going to come from? I have a pretty dense 20 acre forest. I don’t see that as possible. Translate that to hundreds of millions of acres of forest lands across the country. Again, I don’t see it as possible to have a healthy forest with no brush, decaying plant matter, etc.

How is anyone going to be able to clear forests of brush and vegetation? Where’s the money going to come from? I have a pretty dense 20 acre forest. I don’t see that as possible. Translate that to hundreds of millions of acres of forest lands across the country. Again, I don’t see it as possible to have a healthy forest with no brush, decaying plant matter, etc.

patience: As the forest matures ground level growth diminishes.

 

[dodge man]

I’m not going to say water is in endless supply in Illinois, we do get dry periods. As a rule it’s easy to get water with a well but not always cheap. Sulfur smelling water is the only problem around here.

With this situation, are they trying to encourage people to use less water or are they just going for a cash grab? Are they going to start charging for use of the sun for people with solar panels?

 

[Larry Caldwell]

The city could assume that if you aren't paying a water utility, you have a well. So it would be pretty easy to determine who has one to begin with.

An acre foot is a lot of water, and irrigators have been pumping "free" water out of the ground without much incentive to adopt more efficient methods. The water table is dropping, and if irrigators don't start conserving they will drain the water table entirely. Some small towns that rely on wells are already scrambling to find water for human consumption.

Meanwhile, at 2"/week, 2 acre-feet is enough for a huge garden, so non-commercial homeowners will not be affected.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Wow! just Wow! It is no wonder why their Residents are cashing out and leaving in droves! I would too!

What crops do you raise?

 

[npalen]

An acre foot is a lot of water, and irrigators have been pumping "free" water out of the ground without much incentive to adopt more efficient methods. The water table is dropping, and if irrigators don't start conserving they will drain the water table entirely. Some small towns that rely on wells are already scrambling to find water for human consumption.

Meanwhile, at 2"/week, 2 acre-feet is enough for a huge garden, so non-commercial homeowners will not be affected.

Our 20,000 sqft (1/2 acre) lawn theoretically requires about 12,500 gallons per week to apply 1" of moisture. Considering the overlap needed with the sprinklers to get 100% coverage, I'm sure its at least 15,000 gallons per week so the 20,000 gallon threshold wouldn't last long.

 

[Jstpssng]

Our 20,000 sqft (1/2 acre) lawn theoretically requires about 12,500 gallons per week to apply 1" of moisture. Considering the overlap needed with the sprinklers to get 100% coverage, I'm sure its at least 15,000 gallons per week so the 20,000 gallon threshold wouldn't last long.

That leads to the question; do you really NEED a green 1/2 acre lawn, if living in a desert, or during a drought?

 

[Eagle1]

Not sure I'd call Kansas a desert......even if it does get dry in the summer.

 

[Diggin It]

Our 20,000 sqft (1/2 acre) lawn theoretically requires about 12,500 gallons per week to apply 1" of moisture. Considering the overlap needed with the sprinklers to get 100% coverage, I'm sure its at least 15,000 gallons per week so the 20,000 gallon threshold wouldn't last long.

I have maybe 2 acres of lawn. None of it has been watered in well over 15 years, other than a few small sections that were reseeded after some digging. It's all green as can be and needs mowing every week or so unless we get into a dry spell.

There is absolutely NO way I would pay for water to spray on a lawn, even if it was just electric to run a well.

I was in town yesterday for the first time in weeks. I passed two homes with sprinklers running. From the spray pattern, all of the heads looked like normal heads that should be rotating. Not a single one of them was out of 40 or more ... not one. Water was just flowing out into the street and down the drains.

 

[Jstpssng]

Not sure I'd call Kansas a desert......even if it does get dry in the summer.

The discussion is mainly about California... My comment doesn't really apply to you since as you say, you aren't in a desert.

 

[ponytug]

I’m not going to say water is in endless supply in Illinois, we do get dry periods. As a rule it’s easy to get water with a well but not always cheap. Sulfur smelling water is the only problem around here.

With this situation, are they trying to encourage people to use less water or are they just going for a cash grab? Are they going to start charging for use of the sun for people with solar panels?

The goal of the legislation is to preserve groundwater and limit the damage to aquifers from overdrawing them. Basically, prudent, long term water management. The legislation specifies areas of concern where the groundwater levels have dropped, wells gave gone dry, and there are known to be issues with subsidence. Those areas have water management/allocations being implemented. Other areas, not in one of the aquifers of concern, have just reporting requirements for the moment. We would fall into that bucket if we went over two acre feet/yr, which won't happen. We use 10-15,000 gallons per month for all of the animals, us, and a few trees and flowers. The letter that was the basis for the clickbait article at the beginning was just notifying the landowner of their reporting requirements. I don't know many growers p, but the few that I do know have installed meters and gone on with life. Many growers in the Central Valley received 0% of their irrigation water this year, on top of getting 5-10% last year. Water levels in wells have dropped a hundred feet or more in some areas. You have to be pretty clueless in California not to realize that there is a water shortage and something needs to change.

It is a big deal if there is no water to drink, regardless of whether you live in a city, or your well ran dry. With Lakes Mead and Powell dropping almost to outflow pipes, it is about to get very real for a big area of the Southwest as the Colorado river dries up. Whether you want to call it a record drought, or climate change, it doesn't matter; there isn't much water left in the ground or in the reservoirs. Around the world, some very big cities have come close to having no water in the last few years; Chennai, São Paulo, Johannesburg.

Three of the five homes near us don't have any lawns, two do, one less than 40x40' and one 20' x20'. There are definitely many California who don't act like they are in a desert where it rains ten inches a year, but many do. Our local cities have been ratcheting up the restrictions against lawn watering, and the incentives to remove them. On the other hand, twenty five miles from here gets 70+" of rain a year.

The state is a mixture of dry and wet areas, but generally, everything inland is dry, as is pretty much everything from Los Angeles south. In recorded history the Central Valley has flooded from Sacramento to Bakersfield, an area roughly 350 by 50 miles. It would be great for the aquifer, but a little hard on the crops and folks living there now. It may still happen if the levees aren't maintained.

Clean drinkable water is a life giving, and limited resource.

All the best,

Peter

 

[5030]

Bottom line is over population in a semi arid region equals less and less potable water. IOW, Kalifornia is reverting beck to it's ancient times. I'd say it's time to leave myself. I'm willing to bet that places like Palm Springs in 20 years will be desert again and Las Vegas will be a wasteland, devoid of people.

 

[5030]

In many places on the east coast companies are pumping water out of the ground by the tankerful, hauling it to processing stations, bottling and selling it. They pay little or nothing for the privelege.

Yepper, Ice Mountain in Canada Lakes, Michigan comes right to mind. I happen to own property very near the plant in Mecosta County and the residents are not happy about it either.