Newbie to haying

[ultrarunner]

My grandparents had 30 milk cows plus 25 pigs and 100 laying hens.

Summers as a kid I loved the hay part because I ran the tractor.

All the hay was cut with sickle mower and turned and placed into rows with a 15 hp single cylinder diesel tractor…

Nothing bailed… all loose in the hay barn and dropped through the floor to the cows below.

The tractor was a huge expense circa 1948 and still on the job on the 80’s 30+ years later.

If you have covered storage and not selling why the need to bail?

 

[Darren from High River]

Thanks to all that have replied.

I was hoping that someone would say: For a drum/disc mower, give these a look. For a small round baler, give these a look.

From the limited research I have done, it appears that I would be able to get a small drum mower for around $5,000 new, and pay something similar for a small round baler. They seemed to suggest that the hp of my PTO would be sufficient.

I appreciate that the neighbour that round baled for us previously had a much larger tractor than I have, but the one that does squares doesn't

In any event, thank you for your replies.

 

[Darren from High River]

My grandparents had 30 milk cows plus 25 pigs and 100 laying hens.

Summers as a kid I loved the hay part because I ran the tractor.

All the hay was cut with sickle mower and turned and placed into rows with a 15 hp single cylinder diesel tractor…

Nothing bailed… all loose in the hay barn and dropped through the floor to the cows below.

The tractor was a huge expense circa 1948 and still on the job on the 80’s 30+ years later.

If you have covered storage and not selling why the need to bail?

We use the quonset to store all of our equipment and, while the upstairs of it has a hay loft, I don't have the room to be able to store lots of hay that isn't baled, and I have no intention of getting upbaled hay upstairs, and they having to take it downstairs again when I need it (rather, my wife would not want to have to get it down again!). Squares are ideal for our situation if we need to keep them covered, obviously, there is no need for that with rounds.

 

[Hay Dude]

Thanks for your reply.

I understand that it doesn't make much sense but, if we have to pay for hay, we spend about $1,500 a year on hay. It's Canada and no competition. Recently, 1,200 round bales are selling for $200. Squares (65 lbs) are going for $12 each.

My thought is that, if I can get a relatively maintenance free drum mower and small round baler for around $10,000, in 6 years they will have almost paid for themselves and we would no longer have to rely upon others. I appreciate that I may be dreaming, but I thought I would ask the experts on here if I was.

The first year we moved here, our neighbour took 500 squares that, because he baled when he wanted to, got soaked and we had to pay him to do the work (long story), so we paid him $5 per bale and we could only sell them for $1 a bale to someone with lots of cows.

It won’t pencil out. The repairs will kill ya, unless you can fix anything.
But dont let that stop you. If its a “working hobby”, I couldnt blame you. There’s guys here like 5030 that run money-losing, hobby operations making hay and never stop bragging about it. So they must like it.

Something you may not realize is that a drum mower without conditioning will add days of drying time to your crop compared to a disc mower with conditioning once it’s cut. Do you have frequent rains? Especially when you want to cut? I have this problem and have conditioning and also have a tedder to get feed hay dried faster and put away quickly. Any hay that doesn’t meet my standards gets thrown to the mushroom hay buyers, so no trying to pawn off ROH to unsuspecting buyers.

Also, it doesn’t matter how much/little you make. What matters is can you get it cut, properly cured & baled before it gets ruined by rain? You already experienced what rained-on hay sells for-about 1/2 of what honest no rain hay sells for.

I don’t think it’s so much the investment in the equipment (it’s not that hard to find a good mower, baler & rake for $15,000 US) as much as its the upkeep and the windows of time needed to make hay without a conditioner & tedder.

 

[Darren from High River]

I've found Heartland on Prime. There's beautiful scenery in most of the thumb nails.

I'm pretty sure Alberta is a part of the world where huge hay stacks put up with sweep rakes and beaver slides were once the very popular. Here's a link to the modern small scale version. The guy covers his hay with a tarp and makes it look like fun. I've never tried it but have covered round bales with a tarp and had problems with moisture wicking up from the ground. Should you ever try the stack method, starting out small might be wise so you don't have all your eggs in one basket.

This is a view from our place. My daughter was trying to get rid of some gophers:

 

[Darren from High River]

It won’t pencil out. The repairs will kill ya, unless you can fix anything anything.
But dont let that stop you. There’s guys here like 5030 that run money losing, hobby operations making hay and enjoy it.

Some things you may not realize is that a drum mower without conditioning will add days of drying time to your crop compared to a disc mower with conditioning. Do you have frequent rains? Especially when you want to cut? I have this problem and have conditioning and also have a tedder to get feed hay dried faster and put away quickly.

It doesn’t matter how much/little you make. What matter is can you get it cut, properly cured & baled before it gets ruined by rain. You already experienced what rained-on hay sells for-about 1/2 of what honest no rain hay sells for.

Typically, it rains in May and June. We then get rain in July around the time of the Calgary Stampede each year, which is the perfect time to be taking the hay off. If I had my own equipment, it would be relatively easy to find a weather window. However, when you are relying upon others, they choose to take theirs off at the perfect time, and the rest of then left to get whatever they are given, which is perfectly understandable.

Currently, I am running into an issue because my neighbour is on vacation this time next week, he cut one neighbour's yesterday and it is scheduled to rain this weekend and the middle of next week. He is reluctant to loan us his equipment while he is away (we have said that we will still give him half) and I understand his reluctance.

We would like to be able to be in control in future years. We accept it doesn't make financial sense. While I am next to useless when it comes to fixing things, I have a friend who can fix anything, he lives close by, so maintenance shouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[Hay Dude]

There is no baler in the world you can buy for less than $10k and expect to pay nothing to maintain over six years, to say nothing of squeezing a mower into that budget too. $10k buys you a fifteen year old machine that probably needs the pickup rebuilt. Or new belts. Or both. Plus you'll have to pay for fuel and supplies, and, depending on your point of view, opportunity cost in not generating income personally while you're puttering about. If you are willing to look at haymaking as a hobby, and are able to throw lots of money and time at it, with the expectation that you'll have to pay to buy feed once in a while anyway after you break down four hours before your field gets rained on, then by all means buy equipment. If you want to do it frugally, hire someone and accept that you won't be first on their list due to size. If you want to feed your animals really well, buy all stored feed, and graze/brush hog the field.

Very true.
Another option would be to have someone cut the hay for you, lowering the HP requirements and equipment purchase requirements. Then rake & bale yourself. Problem is, you rely on someone else.
Hay needs to be cut when it tells you, not when you want to. We make jokes here about hay always seems to need to be baled on Saturday & Sunday, when you want to hang out with the family.

 

[Jchonline]

I think if you looked closely at a lot of old square baling photos you'd see them behind 25-30 HP tractors. I've done a lot of small squares on a NH 311 and it was never the tractor limiting the through put with that baler.

Every other part of the post I agree with.

What did you miss? I said exactly what you are saying. Rounds require more HP, squares you can get by with the OP HP.

 

[Hay Dude]

Typically, it rains in May and June. We then get rain in July around the time of the Calgary Stampede each year, which is the perfect time to be taking the hay off. If I had my own equipment, it would be relatively easy to find a weather window. However, when you are relying upon others, they choose to take theirs off at the perfect time, and the rest of then left to get whatever they are given, which is perfectly understandable.

Currently, I am running into an issue because my neighbour is on vacation this time next week, he cut one neighbour's yesterday and it is scheduled to rain this weekend and the middle of next week. He is reluctant to loan us his equipment while he is away (we have said that we will still give him half) and I understand his reluctance.

We would like to be able to be in control in future years. We accept it doesn't make financial sense. While I am next to useless when it comes to fixing things, I have a friend who can fix anything, he lives close by, so maintenance shouldn't be too much of an issue.

That friend may become annoyed with you quickly if you rely on him too much.

I know I am coming off discouraging, but I can tell you from a LOT of experience that hay farming is really more about fixing equipment (if its older used stuff) and battling weather conditions than buying or operating equipment . It breaks at the worst times and when you least expect it. Weather is fickle and wont wait for you.
Sounds like a hobby venture for you, which is perfectly fine, but even then, you want to have a reasonable expectation of success. What fun is a hobby that’s dissatisfying.
One very overlooked aspect of making hay is everyone’s situation is very different.

Maybe try only the rake/bale part first and see if you like. Not hard to find someone to come over and cut 20 acres.

 

[stuckmotor]

My grandparents had 30 milk cows plus 25 pigs and 100 laying hens.

Summers as a kid I loved the hay part because I ran the tractor.

All the hay was cut with sickle mower and turned and placed into rows with a 15 hp single cylinder diesel tractor…

Nothing bailed… all loose in the hay barn and dropped through the floor to the cows below.

The tractor was a huge expense circa 1948 and still on the job on the 80’s 30+ years later.

If you have covered storage and not selling why the need to bail?

Did yoir grandparents live in Austria? I think I've seen a photo of a European single cylinder diesel tractor. It may have been the one that was started by a shotgun shell.

My grandparents had 30 milk cows plus 25 pigs and 100 laying hens.

Summers as a kid I loved the hay part because I ran the tractor.

All the hay was cut with sickle mower and turned and placed into rows with a 15 hp single cylinder diesel tractor…

Nothing bailed… all loose in the hay barn and dropped through the floor to the cows below.

The tractor was a huge expense circa 1948 and still on the job on the 80’s 30+ years later.

If you have covered storage and not selling why the need to bail?

This is a view from our place. My daughter was trying to get rid of some gophers:

Thanks for the photo. There's little wonder producers like to film in Alberta.