Diesel Fuel Rationing?

[Hay Dude]

Where did I support any of those "alternative" economic schemes? Never. That you mention them and extol "capitalism" tells me your opinions are base more on ingrained Political views than other considerations, especially when you enumerated your "talking points".

1 - That may true to some degree, but, around here at least, there are only pennies differences between stations. I don't know the retailers arrangements, but I bet the refiners are not affected by that, AT ALL. Unnecessary Trip. Sure, some will, some won't. Not enough people today can afford to buy new cars or even used at today's prices, so as to gain that advantage. Same applies to "alternative fuel vehicles". Regardless, NONE of that pressures that Oil companies to lower prices TODAY.

2 - Really? It is not just frozen food makers, but the Beef, chicken and Fish products are ALL at record highs. Why? Because they CAN and can blame it on "those politicians" and "inflation". THAT's called collusion, or "one plan to rule them all"?

3 - "MY Hero's?" How do you think these laws get made? Why to you think Medicare and Medicaid cannot negotiate prices? Lobbyists. Drug CORPORATION Lobbyists. Same for the LAWS preventing buying meds from overseas. Yes, it IS the Corporations fault as they spend Miliions each year on their Lobbying efforts and it is NOT to protect the consumer.

Not shutting out facts? That's debatable.

Expect no further response from me on this topic.

1. Do you have to buy a new car to get better fuel mileage? Theres thousands of high economy used vehicles out there. I see used cars getting 40-50 MPG that are 10-20-30 years old. lol

2. I’d bet food prices are up not because of “collusion”, but the tripling of diesel fuel and fertilizer costs. This dramatically increased prices to farm, transport, refrigerate & warehouse food.

3. Nope, it’s policies that bend to the pressure of lobbyists. Its also protection to American corporations from foreign competition. If you cant buy drugs outside the US, it’s because of a policy or a law

 

[ultrarunner]

It is odd to see prices of fuel vary by 60 cents or more a gallon here in the SF Bay Area.

The discount station is morning to night cars jockeying around the 3 pump islands.

The Shell three blocks away at the interstate is 60 cents more per gallon!

It's the same all over and isn't all fuel sourced at a handful of refineries?

 

[Hay Dude]

It is odd to see prices of fuel vary by 60 cents or more a gallon here in the SF Bay Area.

The discount station is morning to night cars jockeying around the 3 pump islands.

The Shell three blocks away at the interstate is 60 cents more per gallon!

It's the same all over and isn't all fuel sourced at a handful of refineries?

It’s also possible for many people to cross state lines to lower fuel tax states.

 

[5030]

It’s also possible for many people to cross state lines to lower fuel tax states.

Thats me. Ohio, 15 miles south is always cheaper than here on on road diesel and gasoline.

 

[TractorTYMe]

This is a "planned" event by the administration, to make it look like electric cars are the obvious alternative.

 

[CalG]

Many years ago, I was introduced to the idea that the "fuel" availability was a function of demand, and the yield from the fractioning towers that separate the differing petroleum products.

In the fractioning, there can be modifications that push the yield bias one way or the other, but as a rule, a barrel of crude was going to produce X % of "gasoline", and Y % of Kerosene, and Z % of diesel/ home heating. etc.

The aviation industry was the driving market to produce Kerosene, With both Diesel and gasoline as a short in supply by product.
If the demand for flying dropped off, less Jet A consumed (Kerosene) then the refinery tweaked the towers to produce more gasoline and fuel oil. A pretty stabile market. But with production exceeding demand for nearly all products, prices went down. In NO case was there a huge disparity between production of "highway fuel oil and gasoline. Fuel oil being priced according to energy content. More energy in fuel oil than there is in gasoline.

What has changed?

Synthetic fuels technology where "anything can be produced from raw stock"?
Market manipulation? Production manipulation? It certainly can NOT be supply, for only two years ago, the USofA had energy (petroleum) independence. Supply doesn't just fall off when the market is booming.

Manipulation.... Follow the money!

 

[jyoutz]

And look what happened to Enron. Toast.
Can you prove this is happening right now? I’m actually sure it could happen, but dont know it is happening.
Your cynical remark about “capitalism” is political in nature and belongs in another forum. Although it’s nowhere near perfect, I’ll take it with guardrails over any other system.

Actually several large oil companies have said at shareholder meetings that they were going to focus more on shareholder value and less on putting profits into new production. Shareholders lost their butts during the Covid 2020 oil price collapse and want to recoup losses.

 

[jyoutz]

Railroads get plenty of govy bucks, too

Yes they do, and if they make cross country freight shipments more efficient and remove some trucks from the Interstates it will be a worthwhile expenditure.

 

[mikester]

And look what happened to Enron. Toast.
Can you prove this is happening right now? I’m actually sure it could happen, but dont know it is happening.
Your cynical remark about “capitalism” is political in nature and belongs in another forum. Although it’s nowhere near perfect, I’ll take it with guardrails over any other system.

I'm pro-capitalist but I'm against scammers.

It's one thing to sit at the poker table with a group of people and we take our chances, it's another when a couple of players are able to stack their decks because they are in cahoots with the dealer.

You want proof of bad behaviour while it's happening? Sounds like the plot of a sci-fi film.

Minority Report (2002) ⭐ 7.6 | Action, Crime, Mystery

2h 25m | PG-13

www.imdb.com

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm pro-capitalist but I'm against scammers.

It's one thing to sit at the poker table with a group of people and we take our chances, it's another when a couple of players are able to stack their decks because they are in cahoots with the dealer.

You want proof of bad behaviour while it's happening? Sounds like the plot of a sci-fi film.

Minority Report (2002) ⭐ 7.6 | Action, Crime, Mystery

2h 25m | PG-13

www.imdb.com

Hollywood has been anti-capitalist since WW II & anti-American values & traditions since Vietnam.

 

[seville009]

It is odd to see prices of fuel vary by 60 cents or more a gallon here in the SF Bay Area.

The discount station is morning to night cars jockeying around the 3 pump islands.

The Shell three blocks away at the interstate is 60 cents more per gallon!

It's the same all over and isn't all fuel sourced at a handful of refineries?

same here in the northeast......I use Google maps to search gas prices where I am. It's unexplainable how wide of a variation there can be. I got gas at $4.15 yesterday; the majority of stations are around $4.70.

 

[jyoutz]

Thats me. Ohio, 15 miles south is always cheaper than here on on road diesel and gasoline.

From where I live Arizona is 250 miles away, Colorado is 200 mile, both more expensive fuel. Texas is 180 miles and about the same price. There are no cheaper alternatives. Costco is always the cheapest price.

 

[redobbin]

Nobody seems to remember ENRON and how they artificially created rolling blackouts so they could manipulate energy prices. Record profits. Big bonuses paid out.

I think the above message could be re-written as follows:
"Due to our ability to manipulate the market and use covid combined with russia's invasion of ukraine as an excuse to gouge our customers, we are going to restrict product delivery to create a false demand so we can artificially inflate prices to record levels disproportionate to the price of crude oil. Suck it up sunshine while I enjoy my newer and bigger bonus this year. Capitalism rocks!"

Capitalism is a system of economics, it is neutral, the problem still lies in the corrupt heart of man. Greed is NOT a virtue.

 

[jayhawk238]

This is a difficult topic to consider without blaming some groups.

It's almost like a plan of some sort..

I believe it was planned over a year ago.... I'll let you guess by who... but I can smell RATS.....

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I poked at another poster as well. The truckers feel like they pay their share plus some. I do see others claim truckers come out on the high side. My lite experience with bnsf living in an ag town in the mid west; they were confiscatorialy inflexible, and could careless about bankrupting a small town on a spur line.

There is clearly an efficiency gain for a train vs a truck at scale, however, if they will only show up with two cars, and only on a Wednesday, without regard to the customers needs, then I will pay the extra 3 cents a mile to a freight company that pretends to care.

I don't know if the trucks are under sir charged or not, but, I do know with JIT manufacturing and with only 12 hour stocking, we should probably develop an appreciation for them, at least for a year or two........


Best,

ed

Trucks pay roughly 15% of the fuel and excise taxes that are collected for road maintenance. They cause 90% or more of the wear and tear.

The loading from cars, is light, four tires at 40-50-psi don’t put enough load on the pavement to damage it. Particularly with a truck running 18-wheels at 120-psi and up.

As the trucks have gone to higher psi tires to get better mileage, and being allowed to run longer, heavier loads, they have contributed less per ton axle mile every year for a couple of decades.

Something which apparently can’t be understood by the state legislatures who keep voting for those higher weights, and longer lengths.

 

[3Ts]

The loading from cars, is light, four tires at 40-50-psi don’t put enough load on the pavement to damage it. Particularly with a truck running 18-wheels at 120-psi and up.

I'm not understanding this. How does tire pressure relate to pavement damage? I would think that the weight of the vehicle and the contact area of the tire would be the determining factor. I will grant you that heavier vehicles typically have higher air pressures, but bigger tires (and more of them) also result in a larger contact area. I will also agree that trucks do more damage than cars. I don't agree that tire psi has anything to do with damaging the pavement.

 

[jyoutz]

Trucks pay roughly 15% of the fuel and excise taxes that are collected for road maintenance. They cause 90% or more of the wear and tear.

The loading from cars, is light, four tires at 40-50-psi don’t put enough load on the pavement to damage it. Particularly with a truck running 18-wheels at 120-psi and up.

As the trucks have gone to higher psi tires to get better mileage, and being allowed to run longer, heavier loads, they have contributed less per ton axle mile every year for a couple of decades.

Something which apparently can’t be understood by the state legislatures who keep voting for those higher weights, and longer lengths.

I was told when I attended the railroad freight conference that one loaded semi truck creates the same highway wear as 6000 passenger cars. This seems incredible, and I have no clue if it’s accurate, but that’s what was presented.

 

[ericm979]

It's more like 10,000x if it's a 80k lb semi with five axles compared to a 4000lb car. 2500x if it has 8 axles. It's the per axle loading that's the problem (unlike bridges where it's total weight). Road damage is the fourth power of the axle load.

Inside Science

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I went to fill up my Ram 2500 5.9 cummins last week at a Walmart near Chattanooga. The pump stopped at 20 gallons, about 10 less than I wanted. fjb.

Could that be because your bank hasn’t reset the single purchase limits on credit and debit cards at gas stations.

I was filling two trucks, a tractor, and a fifty gallon transfer tank, a few years back, and had to use two debit, and one credit card, to do it, because my bank had single purchase limits at gas stations on the cards.

The fraud folks at the bank called after the second filling on the second debit card, and told me to use my credit card. Either it didn’t have the same limits, or they could reset the limit easier.

 

[dirttoys]

Trucks pay roughly 15% of the fuel and excise taxes that are collected for road maintenance. They cause 90% or more of the wear and tear.

The loading from cars, is light, four tires at 40-50-psi don’t put enough load on the pavement to damage it. Particularly with a truck running 18-wheels at 120-psi and up.

As the trucks have gone to higher psi tires to get better mileage, and being allowed to run longer, heavier loads, they have contributed less per ton axle mile every year for a couple of decades.

Something which apparently can’t be understood by the state legislatures who keep voting for those higher weights, and longer lengths.

I tend to simplify things, and I am aware this may seem a little socialistic.

Truck road uses charges are passed to the consumer in the cost of transportation. If they caused 100 percent of the damage and paid nothing, your taxes would be a little higher and coco puffs would be a little cheaper. They don't drive the trucks to church or picnics, they are hauling consumer goods or raw materials, why does it matter how the consumer gets the bill?

If your above coco puffs were cheaper to ship by rail, the manufacture would already be taking advantage of that.

Best,

ed