Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay

   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay
  • Thread Starter
#11  
That's an anti spit cup. So don't spit in it,(protects the filter) but you would have to pull the the 2 10MM nuts and 2 8MM headed machine screws (most have) to remove the tin. Then you will see the bowl. It isn't horribly abnormal to see a touch of residual fuel in these, but it shouldn't build or continue to run out. Most carbs will slide off when you undo the fuel line, solenoid wire connector- but carefully unhook the linkages via the plastic clips and watch over them or they will be gone. Remember that breather hose on reinstallation.
Too late! I chew tobacco and spit all kinds of nasty stuff in there from across the shop.

Ha, ha... not really. If anyone wants to hear a spittoon joke from the Old West say so and I'll post it in this thread. Too much wrench turning makes Rhino a dull boy!

All you said was validated today - we took it down...except we balked at pulling off the carburetor. We disconnected the choke cable and sent some oil up the cable from that end. It had a slight bend - not quite a kink - and because the inner wire inside the flexible metal sleeve is a wire...I gently bent it more straight. We rerouted it to have a gentler curve into the lever. All in all the choke assembly seemed to behave (mostly, once it misbehaved early in the process). I'm calling that one a win - for now. It could use a new cable, but I haven't tried to locate one just yet.

My neighbor buddy who is helping had some SeaFoam so we poured that can in on top of about 1.5 gallons in the tank. We ran the engine and it started doing something new. Before it had run smoothly at full throttle. Today it began oscillating in RPM at full throttle. Very rhythymically. Backing off from full throttle it slowed the regularity. So, definitely related to fuel flow, right? He had a can of "AutoZone Carb Clean" and since we had the air filter off he started spraying that into the carburetor. SeaFoam and Carb Clean - gotta work! When he sprayed that stuff in the oscillating engine RPM smoothed out briefly. But it didn't rectify the issue.

Now, friends, I do not consider myself much of a mechanic. But I do think I realized something insightful. I asked him to stop with the Carb Clean, and I slowly pulled out the choke knob a small distance. As I did this the engine stopped oscillating and seemed to run at strong RPM, which makes me think the mixture is too lean. I was richening the air/fuel mixture by pulling the choke, right?

So the manual on pages 27 and 28 says to adjust the carburetor and richen the mixture turn "the adjusting needles out - counterclockwise). And that is all, folks. Where are these needles? No picture, nothing more. It says to make final adjustments with a warm engine running. It's off to YouTube in search of a video that will specifically tell me how to do this. IF I'm on the right track.

Oh, yes...you will love this. Along the way I saw more evidence of mouse infestation. We'd already removed a LOT from outside the engine with a shop vac and air compressor - this is mostly old carpet she also kept near the mower. My mother in law had kept her mower in an old wooden barn these last seven winters. She thought the shop that worked on her mower in the fall of 2020 had taken care of this - she had asked them to look for and remove mice evidence. They really ripped her off, which sadly happens to lots of elderly women in our marvelous modern world of "if you aren't cheating you're the sucker". But I digress. I shouldn't paint with broad brushes, but she sure seems to run into problems. Check out these photos - and the earlier thread comments about the fuel solenoid maybe acting up when getting overheated comes to mind. At least her engine fins are clean now.
 

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   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay #12  
So yes, you are richening the mix with the choke slightly out. You could try and run it with the witches brew in it and see, but likely the carb will need to come apart. You don't have a main mix adjustment. Some on top have an idle mix adjustment screw. They used a handful of different carbs. Kohler complete carbs have gone through the roof on $$$ for these. Someone will undoubtedly raise their hand and tell you to buy a 5$ Amazon carb and all will be well. Only as a last resort I'd say. If the carb isn't a mess inside IE corroded, it is worth buying a kit to service it. One could try cleaning it even w/o if you're lucky. You could post a pic of the carb for more carb details. Model and spec of the engine would be helpful.
 
   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay
  • Thread Starter
#13  
So yes, you are richening the mix with the choke slightly out. You could try and run it with the witches brew in it and see, but likely the carb will need to come apart. You don't have a main mix adjustment. Some on top have an idle mix adjustment screw. They used a handful of different carbs. Kohler complete carbs have gone through the roof on $$$ for these. Someone will undoubtedly raise their hand and tell you to buy a 5$ Amazon carb and all will be well. Only as a last resort I'd say. If the carb isn't a mess inside IE corroded, it is worth buying a kit to service it. One could try cleaning it even w/o if you're lucky. You could post a pic of the carb for more carb details. Model and spec of the engine would be helpful.
TomPlum and All,

I sure appreciate those who responded. I found a YouTube video that said "99% of the time it is the Pilot Jet" and showed how to locate it on a small engine and spray it with Carb Cleaner. His example pressure washer's oscillations were what the GT5000 Kohler engine was doing. Found another saying same thing - Pilot Jet common culprit. Then found a great video 26 mins. long showing how to take off, clean and replace - step by step - my carburetor. Hmmmmm...didn't say anything about a Pilot Jet, but at that point I was game to take it off and clean it. So I got out my iPad and paused the video at every step and did what he did. What was really funny was he did stuff with one hand (holding camera with the other) that I could barely do with two! Five hours later I had it back together and it ran great. I sprayed the shiitake mushroom out of what looked like a clean interior of the carb.

Did you know that Berryman B-12 Chemtool carb cleaner, when sprayed on a carburetor you're holding in your hand, is super cold feeling? I had on rubber gloves. My skin started stinging and I thought maybe I'd frozen some skin. Or it was getting through the rubber and I was about to turn into the Incredible Hulk. The sensation went away with washing my hand. Very odd - I think it was just cold.

I concluded there is no "pilot jet" on this Kohler engine's carburetor! I looked. Whatever I did it is running smoothly now. My educated guess, thanks to you and other forumites, is it was some very slight gunk in the side holes of the solenoid piston. Or I got something out of the jet that is by the float. I never saw anything, but it is running great now.

Except...I didn't mention this yet. There is an oil leak somewhere under the engine. Above my pay grade - she can nurse it along this summer and get that professionally fixed over winter.

Thanks again.

Rhino
 
   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay #14  
Congrats. Oil leaks more commonly are oil filters or drains on these BTW>
 
   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Congrats. Oil leaks more commonly are oil filters or drains on these BTW>
The mower repair shop that had her mower (for months) must not have tightened the oil filter enough because it definitely was seeping oil, but after replacing and tightening that correctly the leaking continued. I thought, like you, could be the oil drain spout - so I cranked down pretty hard on that. I don't think it is coming from there. It is probably some seal under the engine - the leak is under the right front wheel somewhere. With all the belts and pulleys on that vertical driveshaft we just couldn't locate it - even up on my four post lift.

I don't want to stop this thread of great tips and information so I'll mention two more things I could use advice about. First, that OEM oil drain plug pretty much sucks. The part that threads into the engine case isn't tight - it rotates (but not far!) when you loosen or tighten the part that backs out and opens the port. It doesn't rotate far because it bangs up against the frame of the mower. So this thing had to be attached to the engine when the engine was originally dropped into the frame. It isn't tight, but it can't be snugged up without pulling up the engine a few inches. If she has her engine pulled to address the probable oil seal leak (is that going to be required?) I'll ensure this part gets tightened up against the engine - IF possible where the port still faces down - that may not be possible unless it can go a full turn. Or, I'm wondering if it should be replaced with one of those quarter turn quick drain ports?

Secondly,
Have you tried feathering the choke when engine falters? That can help deciding between fuel and fire. I've more experience with briggs but suspect Koler has similar components for fuel delivery ,not interchangeable but similar in function (many cars trucks and tractors did before fuel injection). In addition to high speed jet,it's common to have a brass tube with various size intake holes submerged in bowl and leading to air venturi. As rpm induced vacuum increases at ventura,additional fuel is sucked through holes in tube. On a Briggs (before introduction of ^*@#$% Niki carb) it's a piece of cake to remove upper shell and clear passages with spray cleaner and torch tip files. Enter Seafoam 🏁 which has a good reputation for clearing/maintaining small passages. I suggest. Pull fuel hose as near carb as convenient and let fuel flow into a container until tank is emptied. Watch for intermittent flow volume so as to eliminate restricted filter or line. Measure out 1 quart fuel and add at least 1 oz (which the normal amount per gallon) or up to 12 oz ( 6 oz in 1 pint). Put treated fuel in tank and run engine under normal load if possible 4 to 5 minutes. If symptoms disappeared, add fuel treated 1 oz per gallon then return to normal duty. If symptoms are still present after 5 minute run time,alow to soak 10 minutes to overnight then run for 5 minutes. Repeat 2 or 3 times if necessary. If problem persists and engine runs well enough to do it;s job,run at least 3 gallons fuel treated 4 oz per gallon before tearing into system. I'm a tit-wad and don't treat every tank if engine runs well but always when storing more than a month and always first tank of the season.
If the jury is still out deciding between fuel and fire,try this to help decide where to go next. There's a lemon size device that fits between plug wire and plug that flashes orange (easier to see in daylight) each time cylinder fires. I recently saw them at Auto-Zone but should be easy to find. An old school timing light will also work. It's pretty easy to see variations in rythem as coil fails at lower rpms.
Althoug I still try it sometimes,I've never found that shouting nor cussing help at all.😄
Thanks, Jaxs. Great advice. A good reminder for me to keep treating her gas with SeaFoam. That stuff may have had as much to do with the mower running steadily at full RPM as me messing with the carb. She mowed yesterday and told me this 18 year old mower has never run better. She will blow it clean after each use with her electric leaf blower, and manage the slow oil leak this summer. I decided that rather than have her store it in her rather ramshackle unheated old barn - with the mouse nesting carpet (that has to go - dump run!) - I'm going to bring it over here (50 miles) and store it in my heated detached garage. Which is lethal for mice due to a half dozen baited snap traps with peanut butter.
 
   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Mine was doing the same thing. Turned out the rubber seal of the gas cap had deteriorated and a piece had passed into the fuel line and was obstructing the entrance to the fuel filter.
Mag410,

I mentioned my mechanical skills have been suspect all my life and are, hopefully, emerging in retirement. Once upon a time about 40 years ago I was in the US Navy and they had a base auto shop. I took my 1965 Mustang there for a DIY oil and filter change - and I thought why not replace the fuel filter too? So I picked one up. When I unscrewed the fuel filter housing - these housings were nicely vertical under the engine and easily accessible with the car up in the air - the rubber gasket circumference expanded before my eyes. What the heck? It like...grew! I tried to reinsert it but it always had a an uplifted "bow" in it and wouldn't fit. Oh, well, probably not that essential I thought. I'll just screw that housing down tight and be good to go. At least get to a parts store if it drips any fuel.

When I was done I backed the car off the lift and started driving away. A guy ran towards me waving his arms. Hmmmm, probably wants a ride I'm thinking (it was a cool car) so I stopped. Then he pointed frantically to the ground behind me. There was a substantial trail of gasoline showing where I'd backed up, turned, and started driving the car. Fortunately they had free kitty litter, and I got a lift to the store to get a new rubber gasket.

And, I'm pretty sure...the guys in the shop, who were mostly enlisted sailors and knew their way around most things mechanical, had a good laugh at the officer pilot's obvious lack of common sense. I could fly 'em, but I sure couldn't fix 'em!

In the back of my mind I was dreading this carburetor's rubber gasket growing, but it didn't. Whew!
 
   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay #17  
Thanks for reply. I didn't know there was such a thing as a fuel solenoid in the carburetor that could do that. Is it there intended to prevent overheating of air cooled engines? The two times I've mowed with the mower after our "tune up" effort - fresh oil and clean filters - the engine ran great when stationary. Started right up - only a little rough back at full idle on the throttle so it liked a bit of throttle to purr. The outside temperatures were not hot - about 60 degrees both days.

Is it worth trying to get at this solenoid and replace it? Is a full carb rebuild/service, even replacement, a smarter option?
It there to keep it from back firing when you kill it.
 
   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Congrats. Oil leaks more commonly are oil filters or drains on these BTW>
Thanks, and yes the oil filter was leaking from the mower shop not tightening it correctly, but the leak persisted after new filter on so leak not entirely there. I checked the oil drain port and tightened it very tight. Not there, or where that part enters the engine. BTW, don't like that OEM part's design much - the part rotates in the engine case when you loosen or tighten the port nut - but not far because it can't freely turn due to banging up against the mower's frame. The leak is emanating from under the engine - my neighbor thinks a bad seal probably where the vertical driveshaft exits the engine and drives the belt pulleys. We cleaned all that area, and we replaced the drive belt with the mower deck off, but without removing that pulley couldn't precisely locate the source. It is manageable so she will use the mower this summer and then decide if next winter she wants to have it done right. Won't that require pulling the engine off the frame?

She mowed yesterday and said it has never run better. I don't want to let you guys go so I'm going to ask another question. How do you check the transaxle fluid level? That isn't in the manual. If it is easy I'll do it over there. If not I'll do it when I have it here at the end of the season. Or she can have a pro do it when she gets the engine seal fixed.
 
   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay
  • Thread Starter
#19  
It there to keep it from back firing when you kill it.
Roustabout,

A timely post on your part. So her engine is running like a top except it doesn't want to idle smoothly. Bring it back towards idle and, well, I probably should have attempted to adjust the idle screw. In my feeble defense it took me 5 hours to remove, clean and replace her carburetor (those linkages with springs are tricky, plus I was watching the video!) and I wanted to get it over to her place as spring time grass grows at frightening rates in Kentucky. They don't call it the Bluegrass State for nothing.

Well, the last three times I cut the engine it did backfire. But I'm wondering if it was because I hadn't pulled the throttle all the way back idle when I turned off the key?
 
   / Craftsman GT5000 Engine Cuts Out, Struggles, Then is Okay #20  
I didn't see where you had posted the chassis model number from below the seat. That would help for transaxle info. Engine specs for specific carb ??s. On your engine drain plug, I'm not sure where your drain exits, the side or bottom. What I can tell you is that there are several type of drain styles or even standard pipe from the hardware that are used. Drainzits work well to get the oil where you want it, but of course needs to not get in the way.
As to securing the drain into the block, pretty commonly folks have good luck with Permatex #1 applied to the threads. I have a couple of different crow foot sockets that I use. Some of the engine configurations still don't lend a hand to allow you to get good purchase on the drain when you use them. They just have to be clean IE carb spray works and be dry before assembly. Good to see the progress that you have made.
 
 
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