I'm missing something: Front-end 4-wd

[Raul-02]

Kioti DK47 se hst
I've noticed a couple of things. When I have it on solid pavement 4-wd is a definite no no. So I take it out of 4-wd before hitting pavement.
But in the muck with 4-wd engaged, lately I observed that the front wheels can spin freely and appear not to be driven.
For example I've had one wheel in slippery much or in the air and it doesn't spin with the driven wheels.

So concerned that maybe I broke sumpin', I asked my dealer. He's real straight shooter. I have every reason to trust him and none to not trust.
He told me that was normal.

But I''d been on pavement in 4-WD when I was new to the tractor and recall the chinky thumping behavior of the tractor on smpth pavement in a turn and at the time recognized that that unpleasant condition was because I stupidly had it in 4-WD.

So I asked Kioti this morning.
They got back right way with this
"Thank you for contacting KIOTI. To answer your question, the DK’s front differential is open with the power being distributed to the wheel with the least resistance."
OK
A) That doesn't jibe with my experience of seeing the wheel in the air not spinning.
and
B) That sort of makes no sense at all shouldn't it be the wheel with the most resistance? Did they just build a crap Automotive style limited slip in the front end?
and
C) DAMN~!! I'd have expected a lock up differential. Is there an after market item for that?
Don't bother telling me about the warranty. I already know. Ya can if ya want, I can't stop ya. But I already know.

 

[LouNY]

A) the tire in the air should have been spinning

B) You don't even have a limited slip differential it is a plain open diff.

C) I haven't heard of aftermarket diffs for tractors, I would expect you could get one remachined to fit if you spend enough money.

As far as finding out if it's broke get jack up one wheel and try and rotate it in 2wd, then engage 4wd and try.
should rotate in 2wd and driveshaft to the front should turn.

Now lower that wheel and do the same with the other side.

if that all checks out, lift both tires in the air and in 4wd try to rotate one tire the other should rotate the opposite direction.

Very few under 100 hp tractors have limited slip front axles or front diff locks.

Of course if you are carefull to only use 4wd when the conditions allow slippage you could do a Lincoln lock to the differential.

 

[old and tired]

...example I've had one wheel in slippery much or in the air and it doesn't spin with the driven wheels....

Could be that the wheel that's in the muck is being pushed (rolled) through the mud thus making it even less resistance than the tire in the air.

 

[5030]

Very few under 100 hp tractors have limited slip front axles or front diff locks.

Both my Kubota M9's have open front diff's with manual lockup just like the back. I rarely use it however. You lock the front and the back, straight line movement is the only movement you can make....lol I use the rear lock infrequently, mostly when plowing snow but with the expensive chains I bought that you suggested, I don't have to do that anymore...lol

I do know that Kubota quit offering that on later models (after 2004), I believe because of the excessive strain you can put on the front differential if locked in a high traction situation. I see they now have an 'on demand system' instead of manual lockup via cable linkage.

 

[oldnslo]

Unless one rear tire is spinning the front would only spin at the rate of the rear. Suspect tire still would turn though if the tractor is moving.

Yes on diff lock makes fence lines get close quick since you can't turn..

 

[5030]

Kioti DK47 se hst
I've noticed a couple of things. When I have it on solid pavement 4-wd is a definite no no. So I take it out of 4-wd before hitting pavement.
But in the muck with 4-wd engaged, lately I observed that the front wheels can spin freely and appear not to be driven.
For example I've had one wheel in slippery much or in the air and it doesn't spin with the driven wheels.

So concerned that maybe I broke sumpin', I asked my dealer. He's real straight shooter. I have every reason to trust him and none to not trust.
He told me that was normal.

But I''d been on pavement in 4-WD when I was new to the tractor and recall the chinky thumping behavior of the tractor on smpth pavement in a turn and at the time recognized that that unpleasant condition was because I stupidly had it in 4-WD.

So I asked Kioti this morning.
They got back right way with this
"Thank you for contacting KIOTI. To answer your question, the DK’s front differential is open with the power being distributed to the wheel with the least resistance."
OK
A) That doesn't jibe with my experience of seeing the wheel in the air not spinning.
and
B) That sort of makes no sense at all shouldn't it be the wheel with the most resistance? Did they just build a crap Automotive style limited slip in the front end?
and
C) DAMN~!! I'd have expected a lock up differential. Is there an after market item for that?
Don't bother telling me about the warranty. I already know. Ya can if ya want, I can't stop ya. But I already know.

B:.. It's not limited slip (clutch pack). it's an open differential far as I know at least (see Lou's comment and mine)...
C...No aftermarket locker available and an automotive locker won't fit anyway, not enough room in the case.

Perform the Lou test, you may have internal issues and if you do, there will be metal in the fluid. I suggest draining it and having a look-see.

Of course saying that, I'd never have any tractor with HST. They don't fit into my farming scheme of things. Way too much parasitic power loss.

 

[ericm979]

Your tractor should have a manual rear diff lock. Usually its a pedal you step on. Apply it when the wheels are not moving and ease on the power gradually until you feel it slide into mesh.

When a rear tire is spinning you can apply the brake for that wheel after unlocking the brake pedals so they can move independently. That's also good for making tight turns.

 

[5030]

The one big no no when engaging the rear diff lock is, never engage it with either wheel spinning, always cease movement. Reason is, if you engage it with the heel spinning, you will destroy the locking pins.

 

[Smokeydog]

My 80’s Kubota M5030 had a wonderful Detroit style locker front axle. No clutches. Seamless worked well supplying torque to the wheel with most traction. Yes it was big and heavy. Made a big difference on hillside work. My newer tractors don’t have this feature.

 

[Raul-02]

The one big no no when engaging the rear diff lock is, never engage it with either wheel spinning, always cease movement. Reason is, if you engage it with the heel spinning, you will destroy the locking pins.

First I've heard that.

 

[Ortimber]

First I've heard that.

Me too. I’ve been doing it wrong for 35 years.

 

[5030]

First I've heard that.

Try it sometime and let your experience be your guide. You might get away with it once, maybe twice but you will find out, the hard way at some point.

 

[5030]

The rear locking feature uses pins. Jam the pins in with the wheel spinning and bad things happen.

 

[5030]

I am pretty sure it states that in your owners manual under operating, if you bother to read it that is.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Kioti DK47 se hst
I've noticed a couple of things. When I have it on solid pavement 4-wd is a definite no no. So I take it out of 4-wd before hitting pavement.
But in the muck with 4-wd engaged, lately I observed that the front wheels can spin freely and appear not to be driven.
For example I've had one wheel in slippery much or in the air and it doesn't spin with the driven wheels.

So concerned that maybe I broke sumpin', I asked my dealer. He's real straight shooter. I have every reason to trust him and none to not trust.
He told me that was normal.

But I''d been on pavement in 4-WD when I was new to the tractor and recall the chinky thumping behavior of the tractor on smpth pavement in a turn and at the time recognized that that unpleasant condition was because I stupidly had it in 4-WD.

So I asked Kioti this morning.
They got back right way with this
"Thank you for contacting KIOTI. To answer your question, the DK’s front differential is open with the power being distributed to the wheel with the least resistance."
OK
A) That doesn't jibe with my experience of seeing the wheel in the air not spinning.
and
B) That sort of makes no sense at all shouldn't it be the wheel with the most resistance? Did they just build a crap Automotive style limited slip in the front end?
and
C) DAMN~!! I'd have expected a lock up differential. Is there an after market item for that?
Don't bother telling me about the warranty. I already know. Ya can if ya want, I can't stop ya. But I already know.

I wouldn't want a locker in the front of a tractor. You don't have lock in hubs. Limited slip is fine. You say you don't run on pavement. Really no hard surface at all. Hard surface, 4x4, loader, something is gonna give. Any 4x4, ANY, the ratios change when you turn. Full time 4x4 vehicles have a differential in the transfer case. Even back in the 70's, full time trucks had a 203 t case with a diff in it. Just so it could be full time.

 

[LouNY]

I enjoy having and using the selectable locker in the front and rear of the larger tractor tractor,
they are engaged electrically and will disengage with a touch of a brake pedal or the switch.

 

[5030]

I certainly have no issue with either of mine having a mechanical locking front axle. I'd like electric but they are 20 years old so that was not available back then. Rarely use it but when required is nice to have. A lot of my use involves running on pavement to get from field to field.

 

[tradosaurus]

I am pretty sure it states that in your owners manual under operating, if you bother to read it that is.

Here's all the warnings on using the differential lock in my MX5400 manual:

Do not apply the differential lock while traveling at road speeds. The tractor may run out of control.
When using the differential lock, always slow the engine down.
To prevent damage to power train, do not engage differential lock when one wheel is spinning and the other is completely stopped.
If the differential lock cannot be released, step lightly on the brake pedals alternately.
Do not operate the tractor at high speed with differential lock engaged.
Do not attempt to turn with the differential lock engaged.
Be sure to release the differential lock before making a turn in field conditions.

So looks like you don't have to "cease movement" to operate the diff lock. Have you bothered to read your manual, mommy?

 

[Doughknob]

My bobcat manual says to only engage diff lock when stopped…..

 

[5030]

Here's all the warnings on using the differential lock in my MX5400 manual:



So looks like you don't have to "cease movement" to operate the diff lock. Have you bothered to read your manual, mommy?

You seem to have a reading comprehension issue...

I said EXACTLY what you posted from your manual...

"To prevent damage to power train, do not engage differential lock when one wheel is spinning and the other is completely stopped."

Nothing more.

I have my owners manuals for every piece of equipment and the tractors I own but I prefer the shop manuals which I have as well.

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