Consumer Electronics Show 2021 - John Deere gets a couple of "Worst in Show" awards

[swa]

Posted by a Non-John Deere owner... we know the type and the rhetoric.

Very biased and non-educated diatribe. IMO

Surely that kind of comment just shows you to be closed minded and not at all curious. We don't all like what we read, but we might learn from it. I've never had an issue with my past JD equipment but it sure wouldn't stop me wanting to know how more and how to make the equipment even better and more consumer friendly.

If you think it's 'very biased' please explain how, and help us all learn with evidence based information.

 

[RickB]

Surely that kind of comment just shows you to be closed minded and not at all curious. We don't all like what we read, but we might learn from it. I've never had an issue with my past JD equipment but it sure wouldn't stop me wanting to know how more and how to make the equipment even better and more consumer friendly.

If you think it's 'very biased' please explain how, and help us all learn with evidence based information.

Here's one quick example:
"John Deere also received a Worst in Show from Paul Roberts, founder of securerepairs.org. He chose industrial equipment maker John Deere's fully autonomous 8R tractor, not because of known vulnerabilities but because of the way the company engages with the security community and the inevitability of bugs in the software governing such a complicated machine."

Deere has not put a fully autonomous tractor in production at this time. It is highly unlikely that Mr. Roberts or anyone else not employed by Deere has firsthand knowledge of what "inevitable bugs" the software has. Further, how Deere 'engages with the security community' whoever they actually are, is not accurately described or documented. This machine is still in the development stage and I suspect Deere is extremely cautious about its custody of emerging and potentially proprietary technology.
As previously stated Deere is no better or worse than any other equipment manufacturer concerning the right to repair issue. They are simply the big fish in the pond.
The quote is misleading in that the average reader is allowed to believe the 8R autonomous tractor is running wild and unchecked across Americas farmland. It is short on fact and very long on anti Deere bias.

 

[PuffyC]

It may seem unnatural to the small-scale farmer. But larger businesses usually run on OPM - Other People's Money. Rented money is just another piece of 'equipment' in the stable of operating assets. This allows a far larger operation compared to only the owners' savings invested for operating capital.

This, and that goes for individuals too. So many hold on to the antiquated idea that debt is bad, and it can be when not used properly, but assuming you're someone who makes responsible financial decisions then carrying debt is just another way to make money. That goes triple for right now when you can get a secured loan for something like 3%. That's almost free money just sitting there for the taking. Big business and the wealthy know this which is why they all carry debt even when they have way more than enough money to pay cash.

 

[stso9d]

What I really want to know is do the larger family farms operate debt free at all? I mean $800k for a tractor here, $200k for an implement there….do they actually make that much farming to offset these super high costs for equipment?

Has to be some serious gov subsidies…

 

[ovrszd]

Has to be some serious gov subsidies…

Most farmers will tell you they don't want the government in their business. Those that do want the government in their business aren't in farming to be an independent business owner, they are in farming to milk the system. Those are in a very small percentage.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

And now the facts...

How much subsidy does the US give to farmers?


Direct government aid, accounting for 39% of net farm income, rose to a record $46.5 billion from $22.4 billion last year. … Yes, you read that right. This year, farmers (on net) will derive almost 40 percent of their income directly from the U.S. government. Forty percent.Dec 18, 2020

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Has to be some serious gov subsidies…

Yes it is.

 

[priberc]

Posted by a Non-John Deere owner... we know the type and the rhetoric.

Very biased and non-educated diatribe. IMO

In Feb of 2021 John Deere just got its hands slapped for not living up to the terms of a right to repair agreement signed in 2018.
Many many court challenges on many different manufacturers making everything from cell phones/laptops tractors to inkjet cartridges for making it hard/impossible or illegal to fix your own machine. Hard impossible and illegal even after the warranty period is over
IMHO ....There is something to this.....as you know new teck becomes old teck fast. Old teck that gets repaired ,rather than replaced with dealer/manufacturer parts, lowers cost to owners even as it lengthens the life span of the equipment. It also employs people. People that generally live near to you and not far like China
Repairs on old teck past the manufacturers warranty period should neither be harder or made impossible by manufacturer design/engineering. Nor should it be illegal to fix anything on a machine you have bought.
If it is sitting in your yard working in your operations and you are responsible for making payments ,or have paid for it in full. Just ask yourself who owns this thing? You?.... or the manufacturer?
Food for thought

 

[priberc]

What I really want to know is do the larger family farms operate debt free at all? I mean $800k for a tractor here, $200k for an implement there….do they actually make that much farming to offset these super high costs for equipment?

I read a story from marketwatch.com that claimed 40% of farm receipts come in the form of subsidy. So the short answer to your question seems to be..... no

 

[Hay Dude]

And now the facts...

How much subsidy does the US give to farmers?


Direct government aid, accounting for 39% of net farm income, rose to a record $46.5 billion from $22.4 billion last year. … Yes, you read that right. This year, farmers (on net) will derive almost 40 percent of their income directly from the U.S. government. Forty percent.Dec 18, 2020

And you’d whine even louder if those subsidies didn’t exist.
Your milk, food, gas and quite a few hundred other items you need in your gated community would cost more.

46 billion isn’t even a rounding error in the American fiscal budget

 

[RickB]

The US government has had a cheap food policy in place for over 100 years. You're welcome.

 

[Tinhack]

And now the facts...

How much subsidy does the US give to farmers?


Direct government aid, accounting for 39% of net farm income, rose to a record $46.5 billion from $22.4 billion last year. … Yes, you read that right. This year, farmers (on net) will derive almost 40 percent of their income directly from the U.S. government. Forty percent.Dec 18, 2020

Even that sounds skewed. How much of that 39% was received from COVID benefits/adjustments like most Americans and business? I got some adjustments and was glad to see it.

 

[dogbert2521]

The debt helps to keep 'income' from being taxed

Every dollar that can be shielded from taxes "saves" you ~20-40% (or similar) that year, but this only applies if its used wisely (which can be the case with debt for new / improved equipment).

I have asked my kids how much their $100 device actually costs and its a bit of a wakeup call when they learn that they had to earn $140 to pay $100 (after taxes). This isn't a tax rant, but just another datapoint in the do-it-myself-vs-hire-someone calculus.

 

[jk96]

The meek and unsure typically carry less debt than the bold and confident. The windshield is always larger than the mirror.

I listened a bit to Dave Ramsey in the past and would want to turn him off every time someone mentioned a business opportunity or starting a new business. He always discourages them unless they could pay outright without a loan. If you listen to Dave no one would ever start a small business until they reached retirement age. I've always carried debt and a lot of it because I understood how to leverage that debt to bring in more money after interest than I could without it. It never bothered me but for some it can be extremely stressful without the right mentality and/or confidence. I have friends that have passed on some great business opportunities over a fear of debt.

 

[3Ts]

I'm aware that Dave Ramsey's position is to get rid of all debt as soon as possible. However, I also think that his target audience are those people who can't manage their finances and are in way over their head in debt. For those people, I think his approach is a good one. However, for those who can and are aware how debt works and the risks involved, then debt can be a good thing.

 

[Jchonline]

As long as we (ie US taxpayers) are subsidizing food for Americans im fine with it.

 

[California]

As long as we (ie US taxpayers) are subsidizing food for Americans im fine with it.

Just don't call that socialism. Or entitlement.

 

[Jchonline]

May

Just don't call that socialism. Or entitlement.

maybe but better than starving!

 

[ovrszd]

And now the facts...

How much subsidy does the US give to farmers?


Direct government aid, accounting for 39% of net farm income, rose to a record $46.5 billion from $22.4 billion last year. … Yes, you read that right. This year, farmers (on net) will derive almost 40 percent of their income directly from the U.S. government. Forty percent.Dec 18, 2020

Yep. Fact.

I've went down this road before. And discussing this with the unknowing is never fruitful. We as a society wouldn't want to live in this Country without farm subsidies. Our individual food costs would quadruple. That cost increase would cost the individual taxpayer twice as much as it costs that taxpayer to subsidize.

On a second note. The grain farmers in my area will unanimously tell you they don't want the government involved. They'd rather have a free enterprise system.

An analogy would go like this.

1. Subsidize. Grow 200 bushels per acre of corn. Sell the corn for $6.00 p/bushel. Gross income $1,200 per acre. Handle 11,200 pounds of product per acre.

2. Non Subsidize. Grow 60 bushels per acre of corn. Sell the corn for $20.00 p/bushel. Gross income $1,200 per acre. Handle 3,360 pounds of product per acre.

No brainer.

 

[ovrszd]

Yes it is.

If I did my math right, it's $135 per person in our population. So for you and your wife, farm subsidies cost you $270 last year. How much money did you spend on food last year? Now multiply that by, going low here intentionally, two. Should more likely be multiplied by four. But my point can be made using a smaller number.