Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

I’m a northerner with a job that I commute to every day, plus an average of 3 kids in sports during any given season. My wife and my oldest son are also drivers. We are mostly under 20 miles from home but drive over 100 miles a day between the three of us. Personally I would love to have some reliable/affordable electric vehicle options for a lot of our short runs. But I also want to maintain the ability to load the whole family in the extended 3500 express van, hook up a trailer full of gear, and take off on road trips too. My ideal world will have both types of vehicles and fuel sources available. Why does it have to be a one or the other type of proposition?

It doesn't.

 

[Snobdds]

That was a polite way of saying you don't know what you are talking about.

I thought I was the one being polite.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

If this is factual China's internal concerns are grave. Growth at any cost can be expensive. Fracking concerns me in the USA. As we reshore more of our manufacturing we need to be careful not to make more mistakes like in this video.

 

[Snobdds]

Even when I was working, commuting was only 30 miles a day, 150 miles/week, and I'm 15 miles out of town. The townies I worked with drove maybe 5 miles a day, 25 miles/week.

That means you drove straight to work and home monday through friday. No weekend driving and no driving for the multitude of other things one needs to do to function in society.

Make the examples at least a little more real like and not to the extreme of reality to make a point.

 

[Snobdds]

If the grid is not storage capacity for times of high demand, where is the storage capacity?

 

[PuffyC]

The average household uses 40kWh a day.
The average EV uses 30kWh per hundred miles.
The average distance each person drives 40 miles a day.

So if the average household will roughly use one and a half times more electricity than now that the grid will be expected to supply. I don't think there is a misunderstanding.

This assumes people will continue to drive as much as they did pre-pandemic. They aren't now but maybe they will in another few years.
This also assumes that electric companies generate at max output 24x7, which they don't.
And this assumes no advancements to the current system, like onsite generation and grid storage.

The EIA projections through the year 2050 show very modest net increases and go on to say:

"Although the greatest potential for increased electricity demand is within the transportation sector, electricity demand from this sector remains less than 3% of economy-wide electricity demand throughout the projection period. Current laws and regulations are not projected to induce much market growth, despite continuing improvements in electric vehicles (EVs) through evolutionary market developments. Both vehicle sales and utilization (miles driven) would need to increase substantially for EVs to raise electric power demand growth rates by more than a fraction of a percentage point per year."

They also predict that renewable electricity generation increases more rapidly than overall electricity demand through 2050.

 

[ning]

If the grid is not storage capacity for times of high demand, where is the storage capacity?

Explain how the grid "stores" energy?
The only instances I know of is at Grand Coulee where they'll pump water to a higher reservoir when electricity need is low; even there electricity isn't being stored and instead they're just making more water available for generation later, as if a coal plant got a shipment of coal - there no electricity storage, just available generation capacity.

I effectively use the grid as a battery with my grid-tie solar, but only in concept - the electricity I push to the grid doesn't actually get stored even if it appears like I can withdraw it later, as contribution just results in power plants being throttled to some extent instead.

Of course, you already know this. We all do. The complaint is with the use of the word "storage" coupled the "grid".

 

[Snobdds]

Explain how the grid "stores" energy?
The only instances I know of is at Grand Coulee where they'll pump water to a higher reservoir when electricity need is low; even there electricity isn't being stored and instead they're just making more water available for generation later, as if a coal plant got a shipment of coal - there no electricity storage, just available generation capacity.

I effectively use the grid as a battery with my grid-tie solar, but only in concept - the electricity I push to the grid doesn't actually get stored even if it appears like I can withdraw it later, as contribution just results in power plants being throttled to some extent instead.

Of course, you already know this. We all do. The complaint is with the use of the word "storage" coupled the "grid".

Demand does not care about energy generation. When demand hits, the energy needs to be there. Do you think the call comes in at 5 each night to the utility to fire up another hydro plant to meet demand. By the time energy was supplied to the end user, the demand period would be over. Then what happens to all that extra energy?

The fact of the matter is our entire grid serves as storage capacity for times of high demand. Electricity has a fabulous way of load balancing if there is storage capacity elsewhere.

 

[ning]

Demand does not care about energy generation. When demand hits, the energy needs to be there. Do you think the call comes in at 5 each night to the utility to fire up another hydro plant to meet demand. By the time energy was supplied to the end user, the demand period would be over. Then what happens to all that extra energy?

The fact of the matter is our entire grid serves as storage capacity for times of high demand. Electricity has a fabulous way of load balancing if there is storage capacity elsewhere.

Yes it's fascinating how it all works.

Can you elucidate further how the grid "stores" electricity as you previously stated?

 

[Snobdds]

Yes it's fascinating how it all works.

Can you elucidate further how the grid "stores" electricity as you previously stated?

The fact there are unused electrons on a wire waiting to be used is the definition of storage.

Look at all those lines with holding capacity...