Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Hay Dude]

When EVs has enough market share it will make economical sense for a lot of people, but to get there it often need some help, here the government have used enormous amount of oil money to give the EVes a market and experience in real world.

I’m not sure if I like government assisted cars here.

 

[Agvg]

I’m not sure if I like government assisted cars here.

Understandably for most other countries, but we have a government that drowns in money so all that is no issue.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Then there’s the ongoing question, to which no one has an absolute concrete answer:
Is there really a reduction in emissions when power plants, fired by fossil fuels, will have to work harder to charge all the EVs?
Is the reduction enough to warrant:
1. the mining of the metals for batteries.
2. The production of critical vehicle components mostly overseas?
3. the loss of 100’s of thousands of american jobs in the energy sector?
4. the disposal of, and the looming environmental disaster forthcoming from exhausted batteries?

I don’t think all 4 have been computed and considered fully, despite the vigor in which EVs are being pursued.

You can call people like me who question forced EVs “living in the past” or other disparaging names, but I think it’s more prudent to be cautious, let free markets work, and not force a one size fits all energy policy on everyone.

No one is forcing you or anyone to buy an EV. The global market place will address your 4 concerns. They are valid concerns but do you see yourself or myself having the power to answer any of the four?

Do you fully grasp the ICE era is ending?

There will be ICE vehicles around as long as there are Amish buggies around. A local Lowes even had a hitching post.

Thinking tomorrow will be like yesterday can lead to serious health issues.

Come 2030 the EV concerns should be better defined.

 

[RoyJackson]

Japanese car makers are toast in Europe and China and in the USA their babyboomer market share is dying on them. They had a good run in the USA for 50 years but they didn't make the EV curve and crashed.

Got anything to substantiate that claim?

 

[RoyJackson]

No one is forcing you or anyone to buy an EV. The global market place will address your 4 concerns. They are valid concerns but do you see yourself or myself having the power to answer any of the four?

Do you fully grasp the ICE era is ending?

There will be ICE vehicles around as long as there are Amish buggies around. A local Lowes even had a hitching post.

Thinking tomorrow will be like yesterday can lead to serious health issues.

You're making a lot of claims, Gale...but you you have to back them up?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Got anything to substantiate that claim?

Look at the demographics and finances of Japan and USA obituaries.

 

[Agvg]

You're making a lot of claims, Gale...but you you have to back them up?

Both Nissan and Honda have been very close to give up Europe in 2020/21

 

[Hay Dude]

Both Nissan and Honda have been very close to give up Europe in 2020/21

I’m not sure Europe is a big market to them?
I would think China and Asia as a whole are far higher on the list, with North America being a close second.
Also think Honda or Toyota are on the fence because they know that things can change. We don’t know what they have in the R&D departments

 

[Hay Dude]

No one is forcing you or anyone to buy an EV. The global market place will address your 4 concerns. They are valid concerns but do you see yourself or myself having the power to answer any of the four?

Do you fully grasp the ICE era is ending?

There will be ICE vehicles around as long as there are Amish buggies around. A local Lowes even had a hitching post.

Thinking tomorrow will be like yesterday can lead to serious health issues.

Come 2030 the EV concerns should be better defined.

Sorry, but facts are stubborn. It’s a fact that EVs are being forced on us because an entire EV infrastructure is being built with subsidies. That is force.
I don’t recall gas stations being built that way?

I do grasp the ICE era is ending, but I would have preferred it ended with a less “pressured” way. I think ICEVs could still be made to burn cleanly and preserve our domestic energy jobs and existing infrastructures

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Sorry, but facts are stubborn. It’s a fact that EVs are being forced on us because an entire EV infrastructure is being built with subsidies. That is force.
I don’t recall gas stations being built that way?

I do grasp the ICE era is ending, but I would have preferred it ended with a less “pressured” way. I think ICEVs could still be made to burn cleanly and preserve our domestic energy jobs and existing infrastructures

We all have our preference. Today social influences rule the day. The USA is losing or has lost its worldwide influence on vehicles and most other things. I see the USA more like an England of a hundred years ago as is covered by Ray in this video.

 

[Agvg]

I’m not sure Europe is a big market to them?
I would think China and Asia as a whole are far higher on the list, with North America being a close second.
Also think Honda or Toyota are on the fence because they know that things can change. We don’t know what they have in the R&D departments

To sell cars you must b able to make cars people want to buy.

 

[cqaigy2]

No problems charging his vehicle? I'd guess he'd have to charge it at least 2 or 3 times during the driive

Possible, i said 4 in my post, but you could be right, it might be less.

 

[Agvg]

Honda and Nissan did well in the early age of small SUVs, Honda CR-V and Nissan Qashqai did sell well but only one big seller is not enough, in the eighties and early nineties both had very good cars, but it become difficult to develop euro only models, Europe is hard, we want premium level on smaller cars, so a small car that sell well in US and the rest of the world is considered pure junk here.

 

[cqaigy2]

Hypocrites are the enemy of the righteous.

Can you tell the difference between hypocrites and self righteous?

 

[Agvg]

But one thing is for sure, all countries can produce electricity, few can produce oil so most countries will be better off if they reduce the influence of oil prices and availability. That's is one of the better arguments for EV in the long run if pullution is not up for discussion.

 

[3930dave]

Can you tell the difference between hypocrites and self righteous?

Hypocrites preach mandatory EVs (etc), while flying extensively in private jets.

The Self Righteous evangelize EVs, while ignoring their environmental impacts.



Rgds, D.

 

[RoyJackson]

Honda and Nissan did well in the early age of small SUVs, Honda CR-V and Nissan Qashqai did sell well but only one big seller is not enough, in the eighties and early nineties both had very good cars, but it become difficult to develop euro only models, Europe is hard, we want premium level on smaller cars, so a small car that sell well in US and the rest of the world is considered pure junk here.

For the most part, European cars never made much headway in the US, except for Volvo and the British Sportscars (MG, Triumph).
Although, IMHO, as long as they were properly maintained, they were quite reliable.
I've owned a couple FIATs, one SAAB 96, an E-Type Jag...all in the US. When I was stationed in Italy, had an Alfa Romeo...and, since we were allowed to ship quite a bit of gear back to the US, an Alfa Romero 2600 Sprint Zagato and and engine for a Citroen SM (engine was a Maserati V6).
But, for the most part, European cars were a niche market.
The Japanese car companies did a much better job in market research (European manufacturers had a "take it or leave it" attitude), at least in the US. And their share of the market now shows that. I don't see Nissan and Toyota giving up on the US market. I think current research would indicate EV vehicles are a niche market...that may change, but it's not going to be the government to mandate it...we toss politicians out all the time.

 

[PuffyC]

The transition to EVs will be as painful as it is inevitable. What well-known brand names do you think will disappear by the end of this decade?"

The barrier to entry in the EV market is so much lower you’d think anyone who really wanted to survive could. As committed as GM is to poor management and bad cars, I think they’ll survive only because the US govt won’t let them die no matter how hard they try. If you can’t get regular cars right after a century of trying what hope do you have with EVs? Nissan and anything French probably falls in that same category.

One big hurdle for legacy car makers that I think many overlook is attracting tech workers. EVs are so much more about coding and high tech, and if you’re a tech wunderkind wanting to work on the cutting edge, who are you going to pick, GM or Rivian? Nissan or Tesla? That’s a no brainer.

 

[3930dave]

Is the reduction enough to warrant:
1. the mining of the metals for batteries.
2. The production of critical vehicle components mostly overseas?
3. the loss of 100’s of thousands of american jobs in the energy sector?
4. the disposal of, and the looming environmental disaster forthcoming from exhausted batteries?

I'd say you are out of step, With Time.

But, in the opposite direction, from what others have inferred.

A generation from now, the young non-dinosaur Environmental Protesters may well be shouting out those points.

For a while though, those issues will likely remain the Emperor's New Clothes aspects of EVs....

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I have the Leaf Spy Pro with a Bluetooth doggle. At the time that version was $15 I think the software now is $20 per that video and the doggle was 20 to $30 I think but I went with Bluetooth because it just sinks up with my phone automatically and it's a no-brainer.

There is some cost associated with the Tesla toolbox but I did not drill down on that.

I wanted to cover this because from another post it talked about the DIY types being locked out of EV service and but that is not totally true and this Tesla toolbox is a new development due to complaints.

Google searches will reveal a lot of information and tips for EVS when you're trying to deal with a problem and understand them.

Knowing and the battery health and the parameters that can negatively affect battery life is a good thing to learn and monitor and is how I learned to decrease the degradation of the leaf battery.