Trespasser.....what would you do?

[kenmbz]

Norway and other European countries have right to roam, but I do think there are limits on location to house?

The problem here is, if my neighbor walks my property-no issue.
If anyone else wants to roam, they can ask.
If anyone wants to hunt, no, and we post.

I'm sure Norway and the rest of europe has hunting laws very separate from roaming laws.

We do have accessways around here where people give the right to walk trails through there property. It's voluntary for them.

Along the Canal, the access way is part of the state park and no land owner can block access to walk/fish etc.
No hunting along that area though and when you buy along state right of ways, the rules are quite plainly posted.

The only reason strangers would be wandering my land is for hunting or theft. Not really a way to get from place to place .

 

[TractorGuy]

There is a small piece of property adjoining mine that is being cleared for development as I type. I have a few No Trespassing signs already but I plan to get some fresh No Hunting OR Trespassing signs posted before the construction workers or new home buyers arrive.

 

[Agvg]

Norway and other European countries have right to roam, but I do think there are limits on location to house?

The problem here is, if my neighbor walks my property-no issue.
If anyone else wants to roam, they can ask.
If anyone wants to hunt, no, and we post.

I'm sure Norway and the rest of europe has hunting laws very separate from roaming laws.

We do have accessways around here where people give the right to walk trails through there property. It's voluntary for them.

Along the Canal, the access way is part of the state park and no land owner can block access to walk/fish etc.
No hunting along that area though and when you buy along state right of ways, the rules are quite plainly posted.

The only reason strangers would be wandering my land is for hunting or theft. Not really a way to get from place to place .

The limit for camping is 150m and maximum 2 days, you can of course not camp on farm land and any used private land, no fishing or hunting and you must leave no traces.

Was wrong about meters and days, I have some areas that are popular to use and its no problem, we don have any liability so insurance or suing is not an issue, people can walk of cliffs or kill them selves as they like in nature, its not my problem.

 

[bdhsfz6]

There are idiots out there - take care of yourself.

AND, these idiots often have guns!

 

[bdhsfz6]

This is how I dealt with trespassers:

My land borders an old junk yard which has since been cleaned up. There is an old farm access road leading in from a township road that runs along the property line. A few years back, trespassers began leaving junk along the road. On one occasion, someone even left a junk car. I called the police and was told to install a locked gate. About a month after I did so, someone ripped it out, stole it, and left a pile of junk in it's place.

I set up an old game cam I had and managed to get a license plate number which I gave to the police. It was an out of date plate registered to someone who had died years ago.

I finally bought a Reconyx cellular game cam which sends pictures to my smartphone in real time. One night, a couple of months later, at 2 in the morning, it alerted me of a trespasser. I immediately called the police who managed to get there in time to catch the trespassers in the act of dumping a load of junk. They were arrested and heavily fined but did no jail time. I could have pursued the issue and sued for the cleanup costs but I wanted to reduce the chance of retribution. Thankfully, there was none.

This reduced, but didn't completely eliminate the illegal dumping. I finally closed the road permanently with boulders and logs. I had to put in another road off my private road to access that part of the property.

All totaled, it cost me around $2K and a lot of my time but the issue was finally resolved.

 

[shooterdon]

These are interesting threads. It is hard to keep your cool when people blatantly trespass. I have had signs torn down. My property borders state land on one side and abandoned property on the other side. I live here full time so I have little patience with trespassers or folks who are "lost".

 

[OldPaint]

Triggering revenge on the first offense is never the best approach. Approaching them during hunting season might not be a grand idea either, considering they are carrying lethal weapons, as you pointed out with your reference to the missing couple. NEVER go out there alone either until you have the situation resolved. Get Conservation and LEO's involved ASAP. You're gonna need some means of determining the poachers' access, if you haven't already. If you trail them onto someone else's property trying to catch them in the act, then you would be the trespasser trying to catch them. That's someone else's job. Whether they have permission on adjacent land or not, they don't have to answer to you for it if they're not on your property when you approach them. Check with the surrounding owners to make sure you have permission to be on their land, and explain to them why. You might just get possible names for your poacher(s) if the neighbors are leasing their land.

At the very least, if you don't want to press charges and start a feud, the poacher should come and remove/bury the offal from the kill, and remove his stand(s). There may be more than one poacher, and that's more chances to run across a very bad person.

IIRC, you said your land had been clear-cut, or "timbered", which of course, is going to draw deer, turkey, and other game with all the underbrush and cover. That is what drew the poacher, too. I don't remember what you described as road access to/around it, but if there's an adjacent roadway, that's going to make it a little tougher if they're having someone drop them off and pick them up. If they know they're poaching and don't care, they also know their life is in just as much danger as the landowner on a confrontation. That would be the most dangerous situation.

Wind carries scent farther in open areas than it does in forested areas. Deer don't look up, but they have excellent eyesight, hearing, and sense of smell. They know where not to be when they detect something that shouldn't be there, but get quite curious when their hearing and sight doesn't clue them in on what they smell, thus the snorting and stomping, trying to make something move so they can see it. That is the purpose of tree stands, especially for people that can't be still enough to hunt the deer on his own terms. That same advantage over the deer makes it next to impossible to approach a tree stand with someone in it. They have the high ground and can see you a lot better and sooner than you can see them (if they're not sleeping).

Most hunters will typically cut a trail for their access so they don't have to push brush out of their faces or make as much noise with it dragging on clothing when they're walking, or if they ride in close on a 4-wheeler. Either of those evidence trails is easy to find. If they walk in a long distance and don't cut an access trail, not so much. Knowing where they come from is the first order of business if you want to try to approach them, and being there when they show up. Don't try to walk up on them. I don't recommend doing either without backup (preferably a warden or cop) and cell service, and maybe even a body cam concealed. If you can find out where they park, make sure LEO is at the vehicle if the worst happens and they try to run.

 

[East30]

I had an issue a few years ago. I purchased a piece of land fall 2016, asked the owner about the people hunting the property for ducks. I had previously seen spent shells and the area people had driven to to hunt. He said no one had permission to be on the property at all. Since I was purchasing he gave me permission, but never hunted it.

Jump forward to the next year. I had built a pole barn, and was organizing it one weekend in mid-September. I heard a number of shots very close by. It was the youth duck opener. Stood outside the pole barn for few minutes, heard a couple more shots. Started walk through the 3 foot tall grass to the ponds. Got very close to where I thought the shots originated, but there was one last small hill to see if someone was over it, hunting the pond. I didn't want to simply walk over and get shot scaring someone so I figured I'd wait for another shot, if my guess was right to their location.

Waiting a good 10 minutes, then I made one step. What I didn't realize is that I was pushing pheasants through the grass in front of me. That step flushed those pheasants. Immediately 2 or 3 shots when off. I couple ducks flew over at the same time. (What timing) I yelled "Get Out" as loud as I could. Don't know why those words came to mind, but I yelled it as loud as I could. I walked over the hill to see a guy and his son. My heart was pumping though my chest. I calmly said to the kid, how's hunting this morning. The guys eyes were the size of saucers. He walked up to me and we talked about not having permission to hunt here. He apologized and said his brother had told him he could hunt here. I told him he could finish the hunt with his son, but my son was also youth duck hunting elsewhere, and if he came to hunt this land he would have to leave. Also he could not hunt here anymore after today. I told the kid he had shot a couple of nice ducks. As I was walking away, the guy picked up all his gear and left. Not had an issue since. I think he was more rattled than I.

People don't understand the impact of hunting, and being unknown, on a piece of property. I sure understand it more clearly now.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

So far, I've had pretty good luck. I have found one deer stand on my property. I put a No Trespassing sign on that tree, and the stand was gone a couple of days later. They are either respecting the signs or being more sneaky about it, but I haven't seen further evidence of trespassing.

Do you have this property well-marked with signs? In some areas, it's perfectly legal for people to trespass, if the land is not posted as No Trespassing. I find that bizarre, but it's the law.

Sadly, if you never police the area, some people will treat it as public land. I also use gamecams to get a better idea of whats happening on the land.

Good luck.

In Oregon, there are multiple levels of trespass. Entering onto private property is not a crime, and only becomes one if you are asked to leave and do not. Walking past a No Trespassing sign is a misdemeanor. The next level is malicious trespass; if you enter the property and cause damage of any kind, intentional or not, it is a criminal act. My dad once arrested a state cop for trespass when he drove across a field of young wheat leaving a mile of muddy ruts. He collected on the damages.

 

[IH3444]

TN bill will allow purple paint markings to be used as 'No Trespassing' signs​

TN bill will allow purple paint markings to be used as 'No Trespassing' signs Published: Jun. 27, 2017 at 7:54 PM PDT Along with several other laws going into effect on July 1, one is allowing homeowners to mark their property with purple paint to warn trespassers. The bill soon to be law was signed by Governor Haslam on May 4, 2017.

 

[Richard]

A bit of a reply and a bit of an update and some ramble.

I have the two stands in my possession. I'm not saying it's right or wrong....I'm just being honest. I have posted a Craigslist for them, this is a direct copy/paste.

"I recently walked our property. Found a hunting stand..... and that stand is now in my possession. If it is yours, let me know and you can have it back. I'm not a thief......(nor a trespasser, unlike yourself).

You will have to meet me in a public place and we will discuss that you do not and never did have any permission to hunt nor trespass, much less set up stands on our property to treat it as your private hunting preserve.

You will have to prove to me it's yours by telling me exactly where I found it. If I don't hear from you I'll either sell it at a nice price to someone or I'll take it to the recycling center. Too bad too as it looks virtually brand new."

I don't really expect them to find this and respond....but I'll know I tried.

Meanwhile, I've drawn a very crude map of the land.

The land is bordered with the dark green line. On the bottom is a 4-lane highway (the black line would be one "lane". The top has another road (black line) and lake on that side. On the left side are a dozen houses (this land on the left, now developed, USED to be part of this family tract of land prior to father in law selling it off for development)

On the lower two corners of the land are two black squares. These are small right of ways (?) that when the highway was built (used to be 2-lane hwy, now expanded to 4-lane) the county (state?) told my (deceased) father in law. The two "right of way's" are his legal access points "attached to a public road" to give him access as he pleased.

So as a practical matter the entire place is "wild" though as mentioned it has been timbered so it's newer growth. Talking to the wife, turns out it was about 20 years ago that it was timbered (time flies!)

So these two black squares are the ONLY places where one can park.

When we were there the other day, I noticed a glistening "diamond" in the road. Stopping to look, it turned out to be a roofing nail. I then saw "glittering diamonds" ALL over the road. (this is a pretty steep slope, not that it matters)

We ended up walking all over this paved square....and collected about three HEAPING handfulls of roofing nails strewn all over the place. It is NOT like they fell out of a truck. It is much more like someone tossed them as they covered about the first 50% of the area and were strewn from side to side pretty evenly.

I'm sure there are more there but I'm going to go back with my floor magnet on wheels. Much more efficient than stooping over to get them.

I spoke with my Wildlife Resources person. She let me know that they have a memo there that purple paint will work for markings, AS WILL bright orange/yellow paint. So it doesn't have to be exclusively purple. (I already have a can of bright orange marking paint so won't have to find purple)

Rambling on further.... I actually intend to get a couple cans of purple paint AND a couple cans of this bright orange paint and I'll paint BOTH colors on a tree. This way someone can't play dumb...."OH, I didn't know that orange paint meant no go, I thought it was only purple".... so I'll put both there so they can easily be seen. I'll also double up the density of marks. If it says every 100', then I'll do it every 20/30 feet as I walk the line....every mark will be within eyesight of the next.

 

[Richard]

For clarification, the area between the two black paved squares is NOT easily accessed. It is not only on a steep slope (rollover steep) but because of the slope, there is a guard rail between the two locations. So it's one or the other but nothing between. The "back side" of the property has no shoulder so if one parks back there, they are first, parking in front of a couple houses AND would have to be at least 30% ON the small road. Something that people around here do but I'd expect the locals back there to call that in as a road hazard type thing as it could preclude an emergency vehicle to pass by. So as a practical matter, there's no access nor parking on the back side......too narrow of a road and no shoulders.

 

[oosik]

I wonder about the "Purple paint" law. Is that to satisfy the morally deficient class or the PC class. Both are about the same.

 

[deezler]

Wait a second. This family property is only 15 minutes away from yours, and in 30 years, this is your first time ever going there, whatsoever? And you get irate to find people simply hunting deer on it? How often does the rest of the family check on the parcel? I am guessing not much, since they didn't find the old weathered stand previously.

Forgive me if I missed it but I still haven't seen clarification from OP that you have the land well posted and secured.

People want to hunt. If there is a giant empty parcel of woods sitting between a bunch of houses, you can bet someone is going to set up and hunt on it. They've probably been doing it for years now and it's never bothered anyone, until you.

You had the right to remove and confiscate the deer stands. But destroying them is a harsh and borderline evil thing to do. You have not been harmed here. Someone pushed the limits and broke the unspoken rule not to tresspass. But you tell them not to do it, and it will probably stop. Don't go overboard here.

 

[plowhog]

I have posted a Craigslist for them .... Found a hunting stand..... If it is yours, let me know and you can have it back.

I wrote this earlier:

"If you were contacted by the owner you might consider agreeing to return them in exchange for a signed agreement that they will not return to your property."

But I presumed any contact might be from them looking you up as the land owner. I didn't consider you soliciting to find them through advertising ....

Couple of questions:

- Based on what you found, you know they own guns. Are you sure you want to initiate a meeting?

- If you meet, are you going to be armed, with backup?

- Are you really willing to move from a public place to where the stands were so they can show you? In other words, go to a remote area with a stranger that you know owns guns?

- Suppose you meet, the party wants to claim the property but not reveal where it was earlier put up. Some story like Uncle Bill said to come retrieve them but he's off hunting in Montana now and can't show where they were. Now what do you do?

And many other questions. Which all boil down to my belief that soliciting to find them is chasing possible trouble that you don't want or need.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

A bit of a reply and a bit of an update and some ramble.

I have the two stands in my possession. I'm not saying it's right or wrong....I'm just being honest. I have posted a Craigslist for them, this is a direct copy/paste.

"I recently walked our property. Found a hunting stand..... and that stand is now in my possession. If it is yours, let me know and you can have it back. I'm not a thief......(nor a trespasser, unlike yourself).

You will have to meet me in a public place and we will discuss that you do not and never did have any permission to hunt nor trespass, much less set up stands on our property to treat it as your private hunting preserve.

You will have to prove to me it's yours by telling me exactly where I found it. If I don't hear from you I'll either sell it at a nice price to someone or I'll take it to the recycling center. Too bad too as it looks virtually brand new."

I don't really expect them to find this and respond....but I'll know I tried.

Meanwhile, I've drawn a very crude map of the land.

The land is bordered with the dark green line. On the bottom is a 4-lane highway (the black line would be one "lane". The top has another road (black line) and lake on that side. On the left side are a dozen houses (this land on the left, now developed, USED to be part of this family tract of land prior to father in law selling it off for development)

On the lower two corners of the land are two black squares. These are small right of ways (?) that when the highway was built (used to be 2-lane hwy, now expanded to 4-lane) the county (state?) told my (deceased) father in law. The two "right of way's" are his legal access points "attached to a public road" to give him access as he pleased.

So as a practical matter the entire place is "wild" though as mentioned it has been timbered so it's newer growth. Talking to the wife, turns out it was about 20 years ago that it was timbered (time flies!)

So these two black squares are the ONLY places where one can park.

When we were there the other day, I noticed a glistening "diamond" in the road. Stopping to look, it turned out to be a roofing nail. I then saw "glittering diamonds" ALL over the road. (this is a pretty steep slope, not that it matters)

We ended up walking all over this paved square....and collected about three HEAPING handfulls of roofing nails strewn all over the place. It is NOT like they fell out of a truck. It is much more like someone tossed them as they covered about the first 50% of the area and were strewn from side to side pretty evenly.

I'm sure there are more there but I'm going to go back with my floor magnet on wheels. Much more efficient than stooping over to get them.

I spoke with my Wildlife Resources person. She let me know that they have a memo there that purple paint will work for markings, AS WILL bright orange/yellow paint. So it doesn't have to be exclusively purple. (I already have a can of bright orange marking paint so won't have to find purple)

Rambling on further.... I actually intend to get a couple cans of purple paint AND a couple cans of this bright orange paint and I'll paint BOTH colors on a tree. This way someone can't play dumb...."OH, I didn't know that orange paint meant no go, I thought it was only purple".... so I'll put both there so they can easily be seen. I'll also double up the density of marks. If it says every 100', then I'll do it every 20/30 feet as I walk the line....every mark will be within eyesight of the next.

The roofing nails are a concern. That is a malicious attempt to cause damage on your property, probably caused by the poachers.

 

[Richard]

Regarding meeting.... they can describe how they got to the location in the woods, I'm not going to meet them there (unless I might have Wildlife with me)

I'm not armed and would not be. I'd meet them at Walmart, Kroger....something like that with people around.

They would first have to again, describe how to get to the stand, the brand of the stand (one is pristine looking and has the brand stamped on the seat) It has noticeable washers holding the screws on that would be easy to describe.... then the other stand has some characteristics that could be described...

I've mentioned it....the land is not posted.

This was "MY" first time ever on this property. The property has a couple family members who own it. NONE have given permission for any hunting (we've asked) and ALL want the stuff down (we've asked). Though this land is 15 minutes from us, it is otherwise not easily accessable. In some parts you almost need a machete to work your way through. Then in other parts under the pine trees, it's easy to navigate.

You have to WANT to get to these locations to find (or put up) these stands, they are not casually near the entrance which is all the more I'd ever want to go.... it was the Wife and her sister (both the long time family members (among brothers) who wanted to go visit their old stomping ground)

I'm annoyed at the nails. I also view that as an act of aggression.

 

[TheMan419]

Wait a second. This family property is only 15 minutes away from yours, and in 30 years, this is your first time ever going there, whatsoever? And you get irate to find people simply hunting deer on it? How often does the rest of the family check on the parcel? I am guessing not much, since they didn't find the old weathered stand previously.

Forgive me if I missed it but I still haven't seen clarification from OP that you have the land well posted and secured.

People want to hunt. If there is a giant empty parcel of woods sitting between a bunch of houses, you can bet someone is going to set up and hunt on it. They've probably been doing it for years now and it's never bothered anyone, until you.

You had the right to remove and confiscate the deer stands. But destroying them is a harsh and borderline evil thing to do. You have not been harmed here. Someone pushed the limits and broke the unspoken rule not to tresspass. But you tell them not to do it, and it will probably stop. Don't go overboard here.

So if you can't easily identify the owner you have the right to go on some property you don't own and hunt/put up a tree stand? I don't think so. Also how long do you have to observe the property to figure it is abandonded before you can do that? What if he was there last week? How would you know?

 

[newbury]

In Tennessee you need to post a No Trespassing sign at major entrances to the property and then you can us the "Purple Paint" in all other areas.

2019 Tennessee Code :: Title 39 - Criminal Offenses :: Chapter 14 - Offenses Against Property :: Part 4 - Burglary and Related Offenses :: § 39-14-405. Criminal trespass.

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Did you even READ your link?

• (a) A person commits criminal trespass if the person enters or remains on property, or any portion of property, without the consent of the owner. Consent may be inferred in the case of property that is used for commercial activity available to the general public or in the case of other property when the owner has communicated the owner's intent that the property be open to the general public.

Purple paint and posting just makes it harder for the dumb @### to make an excuse.


Laws different all over - I'm from Vermont, the law there was like the "right to roam".
In Mississippi it's like Tennessee - you HAVE to have owners permission.

Richard - since they strew nails around I'd call it "game on".
Definitely notify the authorities. Also check around to see if you can get some armed guards on the place. Might ask the local game warden for a reputable game club and see if they will pay to lease the land. There's nothing like having a good game club to pay you to protect your property. They tend to be armed and have ATV's to chase off intruders.

 

[Jstpssng]

So if you can't easily identify the owner you have the right to go on some property you don't own and hunt/put up a tree stand? I don't think so. Also how long do you have to observe the property to figure it is abandonded before you can do that? What if he was there last week? How would you know?

There's a 50 acre tract next to mine. The closest to contact I've had with the landowner was when the power company wanted to bring power in for my neighbor and I, and they asked permission to put a guy wire on their land. The out of state landowner said "There's no reason to put power down that road."
I've owned this place for 20 years and lived here for 18, yet have NEVER seen anybody there. It's just a vacant piece of timberland which they apparently bought as an investment. What harm does it do if I take my shotgun and dog for a walk to see if we can scare up a bird?