Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Fuddy1952]

In the late 1800s NYC was having to remove over 3 million pounds of manure and 40 rotting horse carcasses from city streets every day. Most big cities back then were essentially toxic waste dumps filled with incredible amounts of disease and filth. Ironically it was the gas powered car that was their savior.

Read:

All that is Wrong with Climate Predictions based on Horse Poop.

“Gotham: A History of New York City to 1898”

The horse manure story has been propagated in particular by (traditional) economists and finance/investment circles.

A myth once again accepted as fact via internet research disregarding the fortune made by the petroleum and auto industry and now being made by the EV/battery industry.
Believe what you want.

 

[3930dave]

Why can't GM recycle them?

They could, but that would erode profits.

IMO, there is also a general disinterest in covering this recycling aspect of EV's...... don't look too closely at the Emperor's Green Clothes, because it might shine a light on how non-existent the logistics and processes/facilities are for dealing with Lithium recycling. I'm somewhat tough on this issue, not only because this isn't 1960, or even 1980, but primarily because of the Moral High Ground this emerging industry likes to position themselves on/market from.....

Here, corporations get away with a lot that you couldn't in Western Europe. Long before EV was a thing, I noticed that at least some of Western Europe required the Manufacturer of a product to be responsible for taking back and recycling themselves whatever packaging the product shipped in. Cradle to Grave Thinking is what is needed here, but Wall Street has other priorities....

Rgds, D.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

In the late 1800s NYC was having to remove over 3 million pounds of manure and 40 rotting horse carcasses from city streets every day. Most big cities back then were essentially toxic waste dumps filled with incredible amounts of disease and filth. Ironically it was the gas powered car that was their savior.

Nothing changed

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I always thought Spanish moss was a Southern thing. In Virginia all my life I never saw it except once we get into South Carolina. Mount Rogers in Va pollution (acid rain) is decimating evergreen trees.

We have a similar moss in the PNW.

 

[riptides]

Micro-plastics.

We all talk about what we can see and feel, but pollution at the micron and nano levels is even more concerning.

 

[Frankenkubota]

This idea that 'the good ole days' were better is maybe the most widely held false myth today. Sure not every last thing is objectively better but on the whole the world is far better today than it's ever been. Crime getting worse? Nope, it's down by a lot. More war? Nope, there's far less today than at any point in human history. More poverty? More people going hungry? Less education? Less freedom and democracy? Nope, nope and more nope. Not even close. Even pollution is better, just don't confuse pollution with climate change because they're not the same.

If you're curious about all that, check out a book called Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World. It's heavy on data but written in a way that makes it an easy read.

in terms of raw numbers, there is more poverty simply because there are more people but the % of people in poverty is down.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/11/02/storing-renewable-energy-with-thermal-blocks-made-of-aluminum-graphite/

https://www.wymt.com/2021/11/08/former-coal-company-mining-officials-going-trial-kentucky/

Phillips 66 to convert storm-hit refinery to oil export terminal

Phillips 66 on Monday said it would convert its Alliance refinery in Belle Chasse, Louisiana, to an oil terminal, after a short-lived attempt to sell the hurricane-damaged facility.

www.reuters.com

Walmart route in Arkansas goes driverless

The country's first driverless trucks are now operating on roads in Bentonville, shuttling merchandise for Walmart from a warehouse to a Neighborhood Market.

www.axios.com

https://wfpl.org/western-ky-city-grapples-with-widespread-pollution-from-teflon-recycler/

Some current headlines relative to current posts in this EV thread.

 

[Egon]

Maybe I'm mistaken, maybe since we have horses I've never thought of horse manure or urine as pollution. Fertilizer yes!
Cars today put out way less pollution than years ago, but when it comes to pollution (and no I really don't care about Wikipedia or internet "statistics") common sense says anything considered, wind turbines for example, from start to finish each turbine creates lots of pollution (materials, manufacturing, transportation, installation, maintenance, then final disposal. Although some say recycle...which that in itself creates pollution. Same with batteries, nuclear, hydro, solar, etc.
We have new "farmer" neighbors. They drive a UTV every time going to the barn. Twice their age I walk, which is weird to them.

Ever consider the resources that go into putting one oil well into production and then reclaiming it at the end of it’s life. Then add in the refining and distribution costs!

 

[Fuddy1952]

We have a similar moss in the PNW.

Interesting, never knew that! I thought it only survived warm climates.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Yesterday evening I'm riding my 16.4hh Holsteiner back to stable when it got dark. She knew the way back then stopped. Wouldn't budge. I reached up and a large limb would have knocked me out of the saddle, so I laid down on her neck "it's OK now girl" and she went.
I guess that was an old fashioned "smart" car.
Funny thing tomorrow we'll hang out washed clothes on clothesline. If we lived where there was an HOA we couldn't do it.
Free solar powered clothes dryer.

 

[goeduck]

in our local power company long range plan....

We do not know all the impacts or costs of these transitions at this time, but we will update future CEIPs as we learn more. Building a carbon-neutral direction for PSE’s portfolio comes at a cost. The forecast cost of the actions in this plan are $445M more than they would have been without pursuing these plans. This amount equals an additional ~$6/month per residential customer in 2025

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Nvidia promises fully self-driving cars with new Nvidia Drive tech

Nvidia's chip set was used by Tesla before they developed their own technology inhouse.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

in our local power company long range plan....

We do not know all the impacts or costs of these transitions at this time, but we will update future CEIPs as we learn more. Building a carbon-neutral direction for PSE’s portfolio comes at a cost. The forecast cost of the actions in this plan are $445M more than they would have been without pursuing these plans. This amount equals an additional ~$6/month per residential customer in 2025

That's a heck of deal over what I expected. It is good that your provider is forward looking. Over time when inflation doubles our monthly power costs home solar generation may become attractive as panel efficiency improves.

 

[goeduck]

That's a heck of deal over what I expected. It is good that your provider is forward looking. Over time when inflation doubles our monthly power costs home solar generation may become attractive as panel efficiency improves.

Well I wish I could hold them to $6. But I am sure it is an eye-candy number they are putting out now to get buy-in and I am sure other increases will be on top of it, etc. etc.

 

[Oaktree]

IMO, there is also a general disinterest in covering this recycling aspect of EV's...... don't look too closely at the Emperor's Green Clothes, because it might shine a light on how non-existent the logistics and processes/facilities are for dealing with Lithium recycling. I'm somewhat tough on this issue, not only because this isn't 1960, or even 1980, but primarily because of the Moral High Ground this emerging industry likes to position themselves on/market from.....

Here, corporations get away with a lot that you couldn't in Western Europe. Long before EV was a thing, I noticed that at least some of Western Europe required the Manufacturer of a product to be responsible for taking back and recycling themselves whatever packaging the product shipped in. Cradle to Grave Thinking is what is needed here, but Wall Street has other priorities....

I agree with your first point, but not the second.
The manufacturer has no control over product (or its packaging) once it's been sold. We have enough trouble getting people to separate trash from recyclables as it is, putting the responsibility on the manufacturer for customers' laziness/apathy is just needless government meddling. This takes the absurd number of warning labels we already have on any product that can possible hurt someone to a whole new level.

 

[MasseyFerg231]

When Milwaukee/Dewalt/Makita start making trucks I can use my batteries powered tools, I’m in!

 

[MasseyFerg231]

One way of judging air quality is moss. If you see long strands of "Spanish moss" hanging from trees, the air is pure. If you don't, air pollution is a problem in the area.

I live in northern IN. If you see a tree, that’s rare!

 

[cqaigy2]

Interesting, never knew that! I thought it only survived warm climates.

Washington State Peninsula.

 

[MasseyFerg231]

I recently received some solar panel quotes on my home. I believe it was through a some sort of government sponsored site called energy sage. Received 3-4 quote for panels to be installed/connect to my home. No battery storage was included. It ranged from mid $30,000’s to lower mid $40,000’s.
Break even was at year 21 at current usage /energy rates and PV panel lifespans were around 15 years.
If prices keep going up on cost it may make more sense, but it’s cost prohibitive at this time. If I was building a new house, I would incorporate designs to help reduce future energy/operating costs.

 

[airbiscuit]

Sure sign that EVs are more than a passing fad.