Thoughts on new Ventrac 4520?

[Otgaugres]

Curious on everyone’s thoughts on the 4520? Looks like a well thought out upgrade. Personally not so sure about the looks. The lights although useful I’m sure, look like an afterthought. Black wheels are a trend I’ve never embraced. More hydraulic capacity is always welcome. Up in the air about the relocated PTO switch. I’ve got a JD2720 with a dash mounted switch and my JD4066R has it on the RH console…I actually prefer the dash mounted switch.

I have a dilemma…I’ve recently made a deal on a new 4500Z with implements and accessories but haven’t taken delivery. Dealer has the tractor in stock, but accessories and implements are currently back ordered. I sealed the deal prior to the big 10/6/21 Ventrac price increase. Dealer offered to let me go for the 4520 if I want, but he doesnt expect any delivery of 4520’s unail next spring at the earliest and his opinion is that it could be next June time frame. I think he said the price on the 4520Z will be $28k+. That will be $3K+ more than my locked in price on the 4500Z. I have an immediate need (at least first thing in the spring). I don’t really want to risk waiting until next summer for a machine. If they were both readily available, it may be a tougher decision, although it’s still a $3,000+ upgrade.

I’m leaning heavily towards sticking with the 4500. I’m buying primarily for mowing, getting both the Tough Cut and the 72” finish deck. Also getting the Aerovator and the power bucket. I’ve got other equipment so I don’t expect to be doing a Lot of heavy dirt moving work with it. I’ve got a Harley rake/soil container for my CTL so I never expect to be using the power rake on the Ventrac. I could see my self renting the stump grinder although I don’t do enough of that work to warrant buying one.

Thanks for your thoughts.__

 

[prestond]

If it were me, I would stick with the 4500. Yes, the upgraded hydraulics would be a nice upgrade, but it wouldn't be worth the wait time or cost for me.

I took delivery of my 4500z just over a year a go and I love it. I have the 72 inch finish mower, power bucket & grapple, and core aerator. I've moved a lot of dirt and rock with the power bucket and the hydraulics handled it all quite well. I've mowed some pretty tall and wet grass on slopes and never had an issue. I continue to be amazed at what i can do on the Ventrac.

Knowing what I know about the 4500z I would take delivery of that and let others 'Beta Test' the new hydraulics.


Also, I agree with you, the lights look like an after thought, the PTO is fine on the dash, and personally, I kind of like the white (gives it more of that red, white, and blue look).

 

[Otgaugres]

If it were me, I would stick with the 4500. Yes, the upgraded hydraulics would be a nice upgrade, but it wouldn't be worth the wait time or cost for me.

I took delivery of my 4500z just over a year a go and I love it. I have the 72 inch finish mower, power bucket & grapple, and core aerator. I've moved a lot of dirt and rock with the power bucket and the hydraulics handled it all quite well. I've mowed some pretty tall and wet grass on slopes and never had an issue. I continue to be amazed at what i can do on the Ventrac.

Knowing what I know about the 4500z I would take delivery of that and let others 'Beta Test' the new hydraulics.


Also, I agree with you, the lights look like an after thought, the PTO is fine on the dash, and personally, I kind of like the white (gives it more of that red, white, and blue look).

Appreciate your response. I made the decision to stick with the 4500Z. As well as these new models are tested, there always seem to be some growing pains. Good point on letting someone else beta test it. Lol. Since my original post, I’ve heard numbers into the $29k range. That’s a $4k premium over my current deal on the 4500Z. I’ve been fawning over the 4500 for the past couple of years. I’ll be more than happy with it I’m sure.

 

[Number15]

I understand tier iv is an issue but I was hoping for a more powerful diesel in the ventrac. I had a demo on my property and I felt it struggled a little. Plus the fact that the slope rating for the diesel is not continuous made me rule out the ventrac. I have an onsite diesel tank and don't want to mess with lots of gasoline so the gas engines are not really a consideration for me.

 

[Otgaugres]

I understand tier iv is an issue but I was hoping for a more powerful diesel in the ventrac. I had a demo on my property and I felt it struggled a little. Plus the fact that the slope rating for the diesel is not continuous made me rule out the ventrac. I have an onsite diesel tank and don't want to mess with lots of gasoline so the gas engines are not really a consideration for me.

i ruled out the diesel because of the power issue. My rule of thumb is buy the most powerful engine available for a given model and I won’t end up with buyers remorse. The continuous slope rating isn’t a big deal for me. Although the slope capability is a big part of my decision to buy Ventrac the continuous rating isn’t. If you read the specs it’s like 10-15 minutes continuous without changing directions. I don’t see that happening for me, and it’s only in the most extreme conditions. Any of the engine options will run 25 degrees continuous.

The tier 4 thing is an issue. It isn’t going to get better unfortunately. I would have preferred a more powerful diesel version instead of gas. My guess is they cant fit all the emissions crap in the present platform.

 

[prs]

If I were buying as a first purchase as opposed to a trade; I would go with the most current model and most powerful option. But, I do not think there is enough difference to make enough difference to trade my 4500Z. However, I would like to have rear three point with active center link; so I may be persuaded eventually.

 

[MountainBuck]

This is the first I've heard of this new 4520, so I went to the site and looked at especially the differences between both "P" models and other than the 2 additional headlights, I'm not seeing any difference whatsoever.

They use exactly the same engine and have exactly the same specs at least according to these links:

4520 chart bottom of the page

4500 chart

Not quite sure how this will "Elevate. The next level."

Responding to an earlier post in this thread, the "P" engine is capable of sustained 30 degree operation.

I'm happy with my 4500P, but a "next level" request from me would be a larger engine and a seating option that would gimbal with the slope. Maybe a sun canopy? Maybe a better attachment system - at least a mirror so I wouldn't have to get out of the seat to see if I'm lined up? Oh, how about some dash indicator lighting that shows when I'm clear to engage the locking lugs? How about pressure gauge readout on the dash to show the effects of my weight transfer lever to help me know if I should engage it more or less? How about a hydraulic pressure gauge to let me know how hard I'm pushing the machine? At least maybe a standard slope meter that wasn't "an option?"

 

[prs]

The live online intro gave a little more information. The spokesman claimed that we do get more power with same motors due to more efficient hydraulic system. He said power steering power has been upped, not at all sure if he mentioned lift power. The lower articulation "dog bone" was claimed to have been improved for better durability, not sure if he mentioned the upper pivot or not. Your suggestion for a slope correction seat is a dream of mine too.

 

[Otgaugres]

I noted in my earlier post that I’ve decided to stick with my current deal on a 4500Z. The decision definitely would have been more difficult if the 4520Z was readily available. It is not, and the outlook from my dealer is dismal. On top of that, a $3-4K increase in cost is not exactly insignificant. More power is always welcome, but with no new engine options, we are only seeing a increase in hydraulic output. Ventrac is being a little vague in what this increase consists of….is it more flow, or more pressure, or just quieter operation? Logic tells me it would be difficult to get more flow and more pressure without more engine horsepower to drive the pump(s). More than likely one of the two.

My 4500Z is in stock at my dealer, as is the 72” finish mower and the aerovator. It’s been over a month since I gave the dealer my deposit. Waiting from Ventrac on virtually everything that my dealer didn’t already have in stock, with no firm delivery promise. List includes tough cut, power bucket, roller assembly for aerovator, auxiliary hydraulics and 12v power, rear work lights, slope indicator, and dual wheels. Supposedly on the dual wheels, there is a shortage of tires. Go figure. I heard Ventrac say in a YouTube video that dealers would start seeing 4520’s in November. With the inability to deliver attachments and accessories, I‘m not confident in that and that is in stark contrast to what my dealer is saying he’s been told.

Product evolution is inevitable, and I’m sure the 4520 is and will be a great improvement. That being said, a week ago the 4500’s were the best thing since sliced bread. You can search YouTube all day to find anything other than minor criticism. Obviously the 4500’s are very capable machines. My use is going to be primarily mowing with the tough cut and finish mowers as well as working with the aerovator. My need is immediate, and I really don‘t feel like waiting until next Spring or summer for my machine. Looking forward to being a Ventrac owner.

 

[workinonit]

Coincidental that this Ventrac just passed behind the trailer I'm in at a power plant I'm working at. Those are some impressive machines for slope work. It does look like a rough ride though.

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[johara1]

I would bet he can sell your tractor right now if you decide on the 4520, besides you have to wait on the attachments that may never come to next year. The hydraulics on a Ventrac are a sick chicken...... if you don't use the weight transfer they are near worthless to pick up anything..... BTW check out the fuel usage per hour on the different engines and also check out what one will work steep slops the longest...... Jim

 

[Otgaugres]

I would bet he can sell your tractor right now if you decide on the 4520, besides you have to wait on the attachments that may never come to next year. The hydraulics on a Ventrac are a sick chicken...... if you don't use the weight transfer they are near worthless to pick up anything..... BTW check out the fuel usage per hour on the different engines and also check out what one will work steep slops the longest...... Jim

Thank you for your reply and opinion. You are right, my dealer could sell the 4500z my name on it with no problem. He is more than willing to do that for me. The MSRP on the 4500z went up $1525 since I made my deal. Plus all the accessories and upgrades went up as well. If I should wait on the 4520, I’m sure my dealer would sell the tractor and attachments at the new price and put the extra money in his pocket.

You speak as if you have first hand experience with the Ventrac…I do not, excluding my test drive and demo. Honestly, I’ve watched virtually every Ventrac video available online and I’ve not heard complaints about the hydraulics being weak. Not to say they are not out there, I’ve just not heard of them. Obviously Ventrac felt they needed to be upgraded or they wouldn’t have went to the trouble.

I’ve weighed my intended use and attachments I’ll be using and honestly I’m not sure I want to go in for another $3-4k in base tractor cost plus the undefined waiting period. As I’ve stated, the majority of my use will be with the ToughCut, finish mower, and Aerovator. I’m getting the power bucket too, primarily for mulch and light dirt work around the lawn.

I’ve got other machines, so a lot of the work that some owners may do with their Ventrac, I’ll cover with other equipment. I’ve got a JD 4066R and a CTL so I don’t see myself ever getting or using the loader on the Ventrac. Same goes for 3-pt attachments. I’m not even getting the 3 pt on the Ventrac. With my CTL, I don’t ever see myself doing any substantial grading work with it either.

Thanks again for your input…Brian

 

[prs]

The Ventrac hydraulics are no match for a full sized or even a compact farm or industrial sized tractor. That said, I have had no problem lifting heavy black oak logs or bucket loads of wet clay dirt/mud. The hydraulic output does struggle when lifting the boom arm mower and trying to steer at the same time. The new model is purported to have "more efficient" hydraulics, whatever the h377 that means. Like you say, I have another tractor for heavier jobs. I am foolish enough to far exceed the rated slope tolerances on some jobs. The time limitations as to how long one should maintain such severe slopes exceed my need since I encounder lesser slopes regularly where that "clock" resets. The Z is a beast of an engine. I reckon all the choices are good; it is great to have choices.

 

[johara1]

Funny that you can lift all that weight when it's only rated for 500 lb. a 6 cf. bucket with a struck capacity what equals 666 lbs of bank dirt let alone heaped...... add the weight of the grappler and it will lift less ...... Jim

 

[prestond]

That said, I have had no problem lifting heavy black oak logs or bucket loads of wet clay dirt/mud.

Same here. No problem lifting heaped buckets of dirt or full buckets of rock (grapple installed) with my 4500Z.

 

[prs]

I think I cheat the system. ;-)

The bucket slides under the load at ground level. The front main hydraulics give a bit of lift even as it stalls out, but then the curl cylinders roll the bucket back giving a bit of ground clearance. At that point, with the weight further back, the main system will usually provide a bit more lift. Sort of like how curl break-out function is usually the strongest function of a back hoe. All of that aside, the hydraulic capacity and power are anemic as compared to other most tractors. I also have a grapple installed. The grapple function would be better/easier IF the load (particularly logs) would fit back further into the bucket or if some forks were to be fitted to the bucket. That is, the grapple tends to have an under bite.

prs

prs

 

[Otgaugres]

I think I cheat the system. ;-)

The bucket slides under the load at ground level. The front main hydraulics give a bit of lift even as it stalls out, but then the curl cylinders roll the bucket back giving a bit of ground clearance. At that point, with the weight further back, the main system will usually provide a bit more lift. Sort of like how curl break-out function is usually the strongest function of a back hoe. All of that aside, the hydraulic capacity and power are anemic as compared to other most tractors. I also have a grapple installed. The grapple function would be better/easier IF the load (particularly logs) would fit back further into the bucket or if some forks were to be fitted to the bucket. That is, the grapple tends to have an under bite.

prs

prs

Are you talking with the power bucket or the loader?

 

[prs]

Power bucket with grapple.

prs

 

[Otgaugres]

Power bucket with grapple.

prs

Thanks. I’ve got a grapple for my 4066R and my CTL. Won’t be using one on my Ventrac. When covering the realm of attachments that Ventrac offers there are bound to be compromises compared to other more robust equipment. For example, I’ve got a harley/power rake for my hi-flow CTL. I can’t imagine the Ventrac model on a 4500 or a 4520 can compare to the work output I get with my CTL. Ditto for the loader attachment. The versatility however is great for people with limited equipment. I want it primarily for mowing and lawn maintenance for areas too rough or too sloped for my zero turn.

 

[johara1]

Same here. No problem lifting heaped buckets of dirt or full buckets of rock (grapple installed) with my 4500Z.

I'll bet anything you want to bet you can't lift a full bucket of bank dirt without using the weight transfer...... I've run equipment for too long and operated for over 50 years to not know how to get the most out of a machine.... Jim