Kioti ck3510 loader issue

[slckeys]

I didn't realize that the one was a fixed flow. Thanks.. I'll look for the adjustable type

 

[Doughknob]

I have @ 2018 ck3510 hydro that has two issues since new I have a slight leak of hydro fluid on the bottom side of the tractor by I believe the tranny or pump, I never get a drip but it's wet to the touch and you can smell it when using the tractor. Also when using the loader I have a lot of play in the loader curl cylinders if I step on the bucket the cylinders will spring 1". Also when using backdrag it gives alot till it gets soild. Any idea what the cause of the loader issue. Not sure if the two issues are related or not, any information would be greatly appreciated.

My Bobcat has no leak but does move when i step on it........ so i dont step on it! LOL. During use it has no play. Only when tractor is off. I figure its normal.

 

[mcmopar]

Glad to help. Let us know how it works for you. One additional benefit that I noticed is when I'm lifting something very heavy with my pallet forks, it used to dump a just bit when I'd move to the curl. Like there is a dead spot in the spool where it is neither sending pressure, nor being closed off. (If that makes sense.) That no longer happens with the flow control valve in place.

I think they just use low budget joystick valves on these tractors.

Received the flow control and nipple from Surplus Center, installed it and tried the bucket. I was able to back drag with no problem. The bucket stayed where ever I put it, no floppy bucket now!
Thanks again Stan for the info and install picture.

 

[mmecsics]

Thanks @Stan B for the part numbers and explanation. I added that valve to my ck2610 today, and it eliminated the floppy bucket on the dump cycle.
Just FYI, On my tractor, they must have labeled the hoses differently than yours, as mine was not the white hose. I disconnected them one at a time until I figured out which one was the dump hose, and went from there.

 

[Stan B]

Thanks @Stan B for the part numbers and explanation. I added that valve to my ck2610 today, and it eliminated the floppy bucket on the dump cycle.
Just FYI, On my tractor, they must have labeled the hoses differently than yours, as mine was not the white hose. I disconnected them one at a time until I figured out which one was the dump hose, and went from there.

The valve on mine is on the line going to the rod-end of the bucket cylinder. Is that where yours ended up, or on the other end of that cylinder?

 

[mcmopar]

Thanks @Stan B for the part numbers and explanation. I added that valve to my ck2610 today, and it eliminated the floppy bucket on the dump cycle.
Just FYI, On my tractor, they must have labeled the hoses differently than yours, as mine was not the white hose. I disconnected them one at a time until I figured out which one was the dump hose, and went from there.

That's interesting, I followed the picture that Stan added in his post and it worked as intended. I did not follow the hose to see where it ended up but it was the one with the white designation. Are these lines added by the dealer?

 

[mmecsics]

I believe the dealer installs these while assembling the tractor at the dealer. I would imagine they are all randomly different, as the colts just need to match up to the hoses, and not specifically the function of the hose.

 

[_RaT_]

The valve on mine is on the line going to the rod-end of the bucket cylinder. Is that where yours ended up, or on the other end of that cylinder?

Thanks for enlightening us Stan. I have a question perhaps you can do some more enlightening on. I would think the flow control would be in the other direction of the picture you posted, full flow to curl, flow control to dump but the picture seems to suggest the opposite.

 

[Stan B]

Thanks for enlightening us Stan. I have a question perhaps you can do some more enlightening on. I would think the flow control would be in the other direction of the picture you posted, full flow to curl, flow control to dump but the picture seems to suggest the opposite.

The flow control restricts fluid flow out of the rod end of the curl/dump cylinders, to resist the "dump" movement, but allowing full flow when "curling". The idea is to prevent air building up on the piston end of that cylinder.

 

[_RaT_]

The flow control restricts fluid flow out of the rod end of the curl/dump cylinders, to resist the "dump" movement, but allowing full flow when "curling". The idea is to prevent air building up on the piston end of that cylinder.

Without a doubt I am doing this. It drives me nuts. On the other hand, I discovered something pretty cool on the 3510 this morning. When mowing with my flail mower (first time with this tractor) I realized in PTO auto mode it will turn the PTO off when you raise the 3 pt hitch past a certain point. It turns out for me, that is very nice since I don't like dragging the roller in sharp turns. You can easily disable the feature as well. Thanks Stan.

 

[toukow]

Thanks, Stan, for the solution to this issue.

Am I looking at this wrong? I’m not a fanboy of any product- it works or it doesn’t, and my tractor has been great in general. I can understand when manufacturers have issues applying new technologies like emissions, for instance. But if I’m not mistaken, hydraulics on tractors have been around for a while, and there is nothing unique to the design requirements here.

Question: isn’t this a case of wanting to jack up your lift capability numbers to look better in the brochure; applying too large of lift cylinders for the pump’s capabilities?

What doesn’t support such a jaded view is that not everyone seems to have the issue per this thread. We all know if 10 out of 10,000 units have a problem, you’re going to hear from the 10 on any forum related to the product. I asked my dealer this question and he said ‘Could be, but we’re seeing a lot of this type of situation from manufacturers’. I thought ‘yeah, if one company does it, others will follow that approach as well’.

Am I just missing the design (or other) difficulties of the situation?

Thanks, Toukow

 

[deezler]

This is a good question. Does it relate to valve sizing in the joystick loader controls at all? Or did Kioti just want to have fast cycle times on the loader dump/curl functions?

I have to admit, it is nice how fast the bucket dumps when you are just doing some dirt, gravel or mulch shuffling, and want to go fast. But the floppy syndrome is extremely disconcerting. I have the valve ready to install, hopefully soon.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Without a doubt I am doing this. It drives me nuts. On the other hand, I discovered something pretty cool on the 3510 this morning. When mowing with my flail mower (first time with this tractor) I realized in PTO auto mode it will turn the PTO off when you raise the 3 pt hitch past a certain point. It turns out for me, that is very nice since I don't like dragging the roller in sharp turns. You can easily disable the feature as well. Thanks Stan.

That's exactly what Auto PTO is for. Works great..

 

[Midniteoyl]

This is a good question. Does it relate to valve sizing in the joystick loader controls at all? Or did Kioti just want to have fast cycle times on the loader dump/curl functions?

I have to admit, it is nice how fast the bucket dumps when you are just doing some dirt, gravel or mulch shuffling, and want to go fast. But the floppy syndrome is extremely disconcerting. I have the valve ready to install, hopefully soon.

You have the floppy problem on yours?

 

[deezler]

Oh yeah. If you put the joystick to full dump, it dumps in what seems like under 2 seconds, and then the bucket just swings back and forth. If you go grab it, you can push the piston/rod back up the dump cylinders some 3-4". If you go to the ground, and have resistance, it's pretty stiff, and you can back drag ok. But still a little bouncy.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Oh yeah. If you put the joystick to full dump, it dumps in what seems like under 2 seconds, and then the bucket just swings back and forth. If you go grab it, you can push the piston/rod back up the dump cylinders some 3-4". If you go to the ground, and have resistance, it's pretty stiff, and you can back drag ok. But still a little bouncy.

That sux..

 

[Stan B]

...
But if I’m not mistaken, hydraulics on tractors have been around for a while, and there is nothing unique to the design requirements here.

Question: isn’t this a case of wanting to jack up your lift capability numbers to look better in the brochure; applying too large of lift cylinders for the pump’s capabilities?
...

I think the core issue is tolerances in the loader valve. I'm basing that on the fact that the symptoms were far worse when I had something heavy on the pallet forks, and tried to "dump" it very slowly for precision, like when trying to raise a pallet while keeping it level. The valve probably opens the rod end of the cylinder to tank before applying pressure to the base end. In that scenario, air could get pulled through tolerances in the loader valve, and is probably exacerbated by the load "pulling" on the cylinders in the same direction. I suppose there are other areas where suction could pull air in, such as through the quick disconnects. After all, hydraulic systems, especially at the compact tractor price point, are designed to be fluid tight, not necessarily air tight.

Before the mod, I could clear the air out, and keep it out, by running at max rpm (so max pump flow) and only going to "full" dump or curl, like when moving dirt. All the air seemed to get in when feathering the valve. That's why resistance to fluid flow out of the rod end fixes the situation.

At least that's my theory, for what it's worth!

 

[34Willys]

I have the same issue with my 2610, but it's not a 'KIOTI' exclusive problem. Search 'floppy bucket' and most colors of tractor have it to some extent. I have the parts Stan listed, but haven't installed them yet. Mich Iron mentioned a flow restrictor, but you would then have the slow curl/dump. What I like about Stan's fix is you can dial in the bucket to back drag when that's the work called for, then dial out the restriction when you're digging and dumping. The fast dump is great, but comes with a 'small' price.
Patrick

 

[Stan B]

but it's not a 'KIOTI' exclusive problem

Correct. I believe I found the fix I used on a forum dedicated to tractors of the green variety.

ou can dial in the bucket to back drag when that's the work called for, then dial out the restriction when you're digging and dumping

I do this, especially when using the snow pusher. It's nice to be able to cycle the pusher through dump quickly to dislodge any stuck snow.

 

[deezler]

Stan, others, do you find it pretty easy to use the indicator lines on the valve (mine are colored bands) to quickly reset the valve? IE, it's not a pain to recalibrate the right valve setting?