Tiller Vs Plow and Disk Etc

[DeerPark5]

I live just north of Spokane WA with 5 acres of former wheat field. There is a sod covering of few years worth volunteer wheat, weeds etc. There is about 3 feet of sandy loam before you get to any real rocks. I would like to have an oversized garden 2 acres, plant fruit trees, berry etc. (the typical dream too far). I’d also like to migrate the left over grass area back to a drought resistant grasses etc. I keep going back and forth between tiller vs ploughing disking ideas. Ive seen discussions where small disks won’t penetrate very deep and it’s recommended to run an actually plow first then disk it smooth.

I was pretty convinced on disk route, but then I was at a nearby you-pick operation (that was amazing BTW) and some of their row crops (corn etc) were on fluffy ground that must have been tilled.

And then if tiller - reverse vs forward rotation?

 

[jeff9366]

There is about 3 feet of sandy loam before you get to any real rocks. It’s recommended to run an actually plow first then disk it smooth.

Mow very short as the first step.

This is the way the prairie was converted to farms. Still good today. Especially if your land is more in rectangular shape than a square for reasonably long runs with both plow and disk. It should be easy to pay someone to break up the sod on a one-time basis near Spokane, rather than buy a plow which will be used only once per ten years. (Also, plowing well requires quite a bit of experience.)

Consider plowing now, letting the plowed land sit over the winter, then roto-till rather than Disk in the early Spring.

For five acres, however, most here will recommend a tiller. One piece of equipment rather than two. Forward rotation tillers require very little PTO power as the rotating tines push the tractor forward, so forward rotation tillers are usually sized about 12" wider than rear tire spread. Forward rotation tillers are almost always used in gardens in good tilth.

Reverse tine rotation tillers require quite a lot of power. I'd consider your Deere 3033R pretty light to absorb the shaking that goes along with a reverse rotation tiller.

Some tillers are reversible. I do not know what effect that has on component longevity.

A clamp-on Bucket Spade is excellent for planting fruit trees and berry plants in moist soil.
LINK: Front-End Loader - BUCKET SPADE TODAY // FEL BUCKET ATTACHMENT

Buckeye Tractor is a good source for tractor implements and attachments for those with large gardens.
LINK: Buckeye Tractor Co -- Online

Buckeye Tractor makes a knockoff of the Unverferth Perfecta soil preparer. Here is information on the original Unverferth Perfecta:

https://media.unverferth.com/unverferth/tillage/um-tillage-perfecta-field-cultivator-18-11.pdf

 

[DeerPark5]

There is about 3 feet of sandy loam before you get to any real rocks. It’s recommended to run an actually plow first then disk it smooth.

This is the way the prairie was converted to farms. Still good today. Especially if your land is more in rectangular shape than a square for reasonably long runs with both plow and disk.

For five acres, however, most here will recommend a tiller. One piece of equipment rather than two. Forward rotation tillers require very little PTO power as the rotating tines push the tractor forward. Forward rotation tillers are almost always used in gardens in good tilth.

Reverse tine rotation tillers require quite a lot of power. I'd consider your Deere 3033R pretty light to absorb the shaking that goes along with a reverse direction tiller.

Some tillers are reversible. I do not know what effect that has on component longevity.

A clamp-on Bucket Spade is excellent for planting fruit trees and berry plants.
LINK: Front-End Loader - BUCKET SPADE TODAY // FEL BUCKET ATTACHMENT


Give us a list of the tractor implements you own now.

I have lots of dirt moving stuff. FEL/BH, Misc buckets, PHD, BB. The land and areas to be worked would be rectangular. I’ve got runs of about 330-400 feet but wouldn’t use all that space for gardening.

 

[jeff9366]

There is sod covering several years worth of volunteer wheat, weeds etc.

Mow very short as the first step.

The rippers on your Box Blade might suffice to break up soil surface prior to roto-tilling. Not efficient for a lot of land but OK for loosening sod on two or three acres of moist ground.

 

[jjeff]

Hi, here's what I learned from experience and have had good results or maybe luck, I use an old massey f two bottom plow and 5' forward rotation pto tiller I plow and till with an an old Kubota 4150 which does a great job much better than my old 2850. I plow what im going to plant in the fall than till the furrows lightly in the spring for Christmas trees and sweet corn. I also will attach a homemade drag to the back of my tiller while I'm tilling to help smooth everything out. Since its pretty sandy soil I usually plow as deep as I can go 14+ inches. When I plant Christmas trees in the spring usually several hundred a time I go old school and use a 5' wedge point solid bar drop it in the soil and roll the end around making the hole. to plant sweet corn I use and old one row planter using my 2850. I wish I had a 6' rotary tiller with reverse rotation.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

You can buy an old break plow pretty cheap. They are nice to have around. I would get a tiller in addition to the disc but not a tiller as the only thing. Once you break ground then use a tiller. Next year you can just disc before tilling. We always loosen soil before tilling. Probably why we still use the same tiller after nearly 50 years.

 

[LD1]

Plow in the fall after harvest. Disc in spring once dry and no more frost or freezing temps. No need for a tiller. Discing is faster. Just get a good finishing disc with tighter spacing. Go fast for good results.

Tillers have their place...and I use one in my garden. But it's just too slow for the 2 acres I plant Deere corn in.

And plowing the crop residue under to decompose and provide nutrients for next year's crop, as well as burry weed seeds has merits too

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I use a chisel plow to break up the soil and then run a tandem disc to break up the clods left by the chisel plow. We have heavy black clay soil, so the chisel does leave some big clods.

I have a chain harrow that I hook onto my Kubota RTV, and I run that over the area a couple of times after discing.

On the whole, that process works pretty good and probably takes less time than running a tiller (which is a very slow process). But I'm doing about 7-8 acres. I'd never get that done with a tiller.

 

[Torvy]

Prairie converted to farms? They called them sod busters for a reason. Most of the people back then literally cut the sod, scraped it off of the top soil and built houses with it. Trees were practically non-existent. Once the sod was off, they could run their livestock-powered plows to turn the exposed soil.

 

[Fallon]

I used a subsoiler to break up things 8-12" down. Not the greatest "plow" by any means, but they are only $250ish & get the job done for a first pass.

To mix soil properly a disc should be adjusted properly & ran at the correct speed. Getting up to speed in tight areas or maneuvering at speed is problematic. A tiller is not really speed sensitive. Even if it's way slower than a disc, a tiller is more flexible. For 5 acres you are only looking at a weekend or so any way you slice it. A day is an easy tradeoff for the extra flexibility.

I use my tiller a lot for arena maintenance gigs these days. I only used it once for tilling up & renovationg my over-rated pasture as it was designed. Tines are about wore out from all the arena jobs though.

 

[Egon]

Five acres. 24 HP tractor.

Go with a forward rotating tiller. It will do the complete job.

You’ll have to match the equipment to what your tractor can handle and how much cultivated area you will end up with. A plow would be okay but disc’s and chisel plow’s that will do a proper job require more horse power.

 

[jyoutz]

I used a plow to put the garden to bed in the fall. I like the rough furrows because the allow snow to soak deep into the ground and the heavy soil turns don’t blow in the winter winds. Then in the spring before planting I use my tiller to create a soft planting bed.

 

[CoyPatton]

This is my personal process. While not currently doing so I have tilled sine for hire.
Either I cut the growth close (2-3”) in height. I prefer to till new ground in fall after a frost or very early spring (basically when growth is still dormant). If growth is green, cut it low, let the cuttings dry out for a few days. If tilling in the fall, just turn the soil enough to disturb the roots good. Run 2 directions max 180 (may not need but 1 run.
Then in spring till it deeper (6”) (remember this is near tilled soil 6” is deep). Run the tiller on diagonals from the fall runs changing directions to arrive at the soil looseness desired.
This is generally only needed for soil that was untilled for many years. Watch for foreign items in the ground, you will be amazed at what you dig up. Some items will jam up your tiller and these can be a pain to remove. (Take some tools to the till site)
Good Luck!

 

[Sonny580]

first up subsoil deep will do you the most good. Here I subsoil 36 inches deep then fall plow 18 inches deep. This wont work for everybody but you need the ground loose as possible down deep so water/air/roots can go down and get to the moisture all season long.

 

[LD1]

first up subsoil deep will do you the most good. Here I subsoil 36 inches deep then fall plow 18 inches deep. This wont work for everybody but you need the ground loose as possible down deep so water/air/roots can go down and get to the moisture all season long.

Do that around here would cost you thousand of dollars per acre in tile repair

 

[JohnnyMX]

I've struggled with the same issue. It is the initial tilling that is a problem. After the sod/mat/root layer is removed you can do almost any method with success. The one thing I haven't tried is the one thing that probably makes the most sense with what I've learned is that you need to get dirt to the top and flip the weeds down. As 2-bottom plow first would achieve that so you aren't dealing with the sod on the second pass. I've never tried fire to burn off the layer, but I bet it works. I wasn't willing to try.

First Tilling:

• Spraying & then Mowing low.
• Landscape Rake to remove as much of that residual and loose material as you can; problem is where are you putting all of that on a 5 acre plot + time
• Box blade rippers (took forever and got iffy results; if you do hook a large rock beware)
• Subsoiler (on 5 acres it isn't practical; maybe around treelines to cut roots)
• Reverse Tine Tiller on unbroken ground (with sod you'll spend as much time clearing out the stuff wrapped around the tiller; rocks are a problem)
• Field Cultivator - Works good but if the weed mat is too thick you end up basically raking the weeds before you get down to dirt.

Second Tilling:

• A field cultivator is very fast (have a Fred Cain 9 shank) and is good at breaking the ground up again and tilling most of the residual under.
• Rototiller works great (as expected) but still going slow being careful of the new crop of rocks that appear. Minimal headaches with things getting wrapped if done annually.

If I had to do it again, I'd get a forward tine tiller ONLY for my rock reasons. I have had a basketball-sized rock wedge itself into the tiller once and I am very cautious now of that. It was the first day I used the tiller.

 

[Sonny580]

IF the weeds are dry/dead and not much green stuff in it, rake it into piles and do controlled burns. landscape rakes do a decent job but its a slow process.
The fastest way would be to moldboard plow then go with a big tiller and work it down.

Oh,-- my tiles here are from 4 to 10 feet deep so no way they get hit with the subsoiler.

 

[Fallon]

"* Subsoiler (on 5 acres it isn't practical; maybe around treelines to cut roots)"

I'd disagree. It's a 1 off project. Pretty sure I did all the subsoiling on 3ish acres in under a weekend with a 32hp L3200 years ago. No rocks where I am, which can change the equation a lot.

A proper plow will turn the topsoil & bury weeds. But around here topsoil can be pretty thin & you don't want to bury it under clay. Way more skill & setup required to get decent results with a proper plow.

A proper plow would be the best, but for many small projects a subsoiler is plenty good enough & cheaper in terms of cost or learning curve.

 

[JohnnyMX]

I did about 1.5 acres of subsoiling running about 3-4' distance per my one shank subsoiler. I was trying to break things up but also use it as a coulter wheel, root/rock finder before hitting it with the tiller. Even with a 50hp tractor you are going pretty slow when running that at depth, not to mention, most subsoilers at TSC don't have a shear bolt so if you hook something, you are breaking something. Everyone's soil is different.

If you were going to run that you may be better off with a middle buster to try and flip more soil. Just a thought.

Fallon, you are right that with enough time and determination it could work. With two kids loaded with activities, I don't get that much time to devote to this stuff so I have to make it count.

 

[California]

...running about 3-4' distance ...with a 50hp tractor

Space between passes? Depth?