Help me identify this noise.

[winston1]

Sure won't come without removing the retainer but ought to have it jarred loose by now anyway.

 

[clemsonfor]

Success! Not sure why at first I didn't think about the seal retainer holding the bearing in? Took it off and knocked it out with the dead blow. Inner bearing pulls out from inside. Outer bearing you remove the hub, the seal color and I rested the bearing in the vise and knocked the shaft out with a dead blow. Its a light press fit. Didn't really take much, you don't need a press or anything for it. Oddly I didn't hear the noise as much when I was getting it onto the shed to work on it. I didn't worry about that though. I decided bid tear into it. Strange thing though was that the spring that goes in the axle seal was around the shaft when I pulled it out? Don't think that was the noise as it was t ground up. The wear collar had a light groove in it. I may as well replace the seal since the weird spring issue but also for a matched pair. I had just replaced the seal and collar maybe 8 to 9 years ago. I guess dirt gets thrown up there from disking and gets in there? It had evidence of oil seeping. Not leaking but just wet around it. The outer bearing is a little crunchy sounding in hand but not bad...the inner sounds smooth. I may as well replace them both while I'm in there...but part of me thinks are the replacement bearings Chinese and these original Japanese so they may be better. Thinking only replace the outer?

Pictures are kind of out of order, sorry but those who know what your looking at get the idea.

 

[clemsonfor]

The Labor Flat Rate Manual says 1.5 hours to remove/install the whole assembly then a few tenths each added to replace the inner/outer bearing. So apparently whoever wrote the manual didn't expect the axle to slide out as you describe. We'll see ....

I could do it in that 1.5 hours if I had a prepped shop etc. But like I said I will spend had that time cleaning gasket material. If I just scraped the loose big stuff and gooped rtv back in there I could do it in close to that time but man it would be hard to beat the book on this job.

 

[California]

That's great to hear you can take the axle out without removing the housing!

 

[ponytug]

Nice thought about unbolting the seal retainer!

I suspect that the order of events was that the seal wore through, the spring snagged on dirt, and the bearings slowly ground themselves up. Whenever I see wheel movement like you had in your video, I expect to see a shot seal, as well as a bad bearing.

(Nice video by the way, but it brought back painful memories of other wheel bearings that failed at inopportune moments...like losing one in western Nebraska while driving to the Rockies to go backpacking. At least that one failed in daylight hours, and within eighty miles of a garage that had the bearing.)

All the best,

Peter

 

[SPYDERLK]

I sure hope that fixes it. My impression from the sound is it is something dry and unlubricated. Doesnt fit with the innards you exposed.

 

[clemsonfor]

I sure hope that fixes it. My impression from the sound is it is something dry and unlubricated. Doesnt fit with the innards you exposed.

That's what I fear after seeing it all and hearing how the bearings sound to me. Bull gear looks good. The gear for the brake shaft that meshes on bull gear looks good at least the side I see.

Also the fact that I didn't hear it as I was dropping the harrow and moving into the shed. I had a thought that what if that's something to do with the brake chamber...and it's coming from the rim as sound moves...but it sure didn't sound like it was in the brake chamber.

These are simple machines, there is not much in there and for sure nothing left on the axle side at all to dismantle.

Also before someone asks the lugnuts were tight so it wasn't wallowing around on the hub.

 

[California]

The noise seemed to be at axle rpm, while anything beyond that bull gear would spin much faster as you rotate the wheel, no?

 

[clemsonfor]

Good catch. I'm my messages with Aaron at Hoye. He said the same thing. It is exactly with the wheel revolution, not faster. Everything else including differential and brake shaft spin at a faster revolution. Leads you to believe it's wheel/axle related.

 

[ponytug]

I would replace both bearings, and with non-Chinese bearings, if you can get them. Personally, I only put cheap bearings in light load, low use, easy to service uses.

If you have a real groove cut, you may want to sand out the groove as a few imperfections can trash a seal pretty quickly. You could try to find an oversized seal. (I have never had much luck trying to do that, but it might be a lucky size.) If it is really bad, a good machinist could spray weld new metal on and get it back to size.

All the best,

Peter

 

[clemsonfor]

The

I would replace both bearings, and with non-Chinese bearings, if you can get them. Personally, I only put cheap bearings in light load, low use, easy to service uses.

If you have a real groove cut, you may want to sand out the groove as a few imperfections can trash a seal pretty quickly. You could try to find an oversized seal. (I have never had much luck trying to do that, but it might be a lucky size.) If it is really bad, a good machinist could spray weld new metal on and get it back to size.

All the best,

Peter

The wear collar get replaced with the seal. You can see it laying above the dead blow and below the snap ring pliers in the pic. Its about 2"s in diameter and provides the seal a sacrificial surface to ride on.

 

[California]

One other point I saw in the manual - the number stamped on the outer bearing goes toward outside.

 

[clemsonfor]

I noticed that on the drawing I got. Thanks for mentioning that again. I will make sure I put it back on that way. I don't remember show they were. What about the inner bearing does the number still face outside the tractor?

 

[California]

I noticed that on the drawing I got. Thanks for mentioning that again. I will make sure I put it back on that way. I don't remember show they were. What about the inner bearing does the number still face outside the tractor?

I didn't understand what I read, so I didn't quote it. For the inner bearing I think it said the number should face out. Which could mean toward the wheel, or, could mean number visible as you press the bearing onto that end of the axle. I think something got lost in translation.

All I can suggest is examine the existing bearing before removing it.

I'm back over to our home in town now so I don't have access to the manuals at the ranch, for another week.

 

[clemsonfor]

I didn't understand what I read, so I didn't quote it. For the inner bearing I think it said the number should face out. Which could mean toward the wheel, or, could mean number visible as you press the bearing onto that end of the axle. I think something got lost in translation.

All I can suggest is examine the existing bearing before removing it.

I'm back over to our home in town now so I don't have access to the manuals at the ranch, for another week.

Well there out now and I didn't notice. I don't see any difference in the bearings sides? But these appear to be common bearings in transfer cases and like manual transmissions so I would guess if it mattered it would also be specified in other applications the direction the bearing faces.

 

[winston1]

Makes no difference on a non shielded or non sealed 6209 bearing.

 

[clemsonfor]

Here are a few more pics for those who want to see more details and for those who like to see how this stuff comes apart.

 

[California]

Does the inner bearing slide out still attached to the axle, or do you need to drive it out toward the bull gear using a pipe etc?

 

[clemsonfor]

Does the inner bearing slide out still attached to the axle, or do you need to drive it out toward the bull gear using a pipe etc?

No it Just pulls out of the housing by hand. Its a slip fit, not press. Pull the shaft out, to let that bull gear clear the diff lock on that side. Bull gear let drop down and angled out from under the fork. I set it over to the side and you just pull the bearing out. Comes out to the inside of the trans housing. You can see it's machined surface .

 

[California]

No it Just pulls out of the housing by hand. Its a slip fit, not press. Pull able out to let that bull gear clear the diff lock on that side. Bull gear let drop down and angled out from under the fork. I set it over to the side and you just pull the bearing out. Comes out to the inside of the trans housing. You can see it's machined surface .

Thanks! I didn't know that.

I should tear down that axle assembly I have with its hinge pin ripped out, and put the components on Ebay. I paid $85 shipping for its replacement so it wouldn't be reasonable to offer the intact assembly, because shipping would cost too much. But selling the hub, axle shaft, etc individually might recover some of my repair cost.