Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Hay Dude]

Only a burden if it is forced on them. I am 100% against governments forcing these things on people.

And so what do you see coming "over the horizon" when it comes to EVs?
I see force (see California 2030)

 

[Hay Dude]

Not many $5000 cars left. As hybrids and EVs become more and more common, they will become more affordable in the resale market. I just did a search on cars. About 3000 vehicles under $6000 within 500 miles of me. (Over 330k total cars for sale in that area) 1/6 of them are hybrids. +9 EVs. As they become more affordable, they are better for poor people because they use less fuel.

OK that's an economic shortage issue that's a bit of a one off caused by demand because of chip manufacturers.
Ill play along. How about $10,000 cars? Is there a lot of EV's in the 10K range?
How about 20K, or 30K?

I bet there's like zero mainstream EVs under 30K. Probably even used EVs are more than that.
That cuts out a HUGE swath of America.
Again, mostly the poor, living in cities, where the EV is needed the most.

Its just going to create more hate and division.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Here's an EV that would be easy to get all up in the air about.

 

[Hay Dude]

That’s really cool. I’d own one of those. Be great for inspecting farm fields

 

[aczlan]

OK that's an economic shortage issue that's a bit of a one off caused by demand because of chip manufacturers.
Ill play along. How about $10,000 cars? Is there a lot of EV's in the 10K range?
How about 20K, or 30K?

I bet there's like zero mainstream EVs under 30K. Probably even used EVs are more than that.
That cuts out a HUGE swath of America.
Again, mostly the poor, living in cities, where the EV is needed the most.

Its just going to create more hate and division.

Looking on our local Craigslist I found a half-dozen in the $12,00-20,000 range.

Aaron Z

 

[Torvy]

OK that's an economic shortage issue that's a bit of a one off caused by demand because of chip manufacturers.
Ill play along. How about $10,000 cars? Is there a lot of EV's in the 10K range?
How about 20K, or 30K?

I bet there's like zero mainstream EVs under 30K. Probably even used EVs are more than that.
That cuts out a HUGE swath of America.
Again, mostly the poor, living in cities, where the EV is needed the most.

Its just going to create more hate and division.

30 under 10k...all of them are either Chevy Volt or Spark, or a Nissan Leaf
300 more from 10-20k...add in BMW, fiat, ford, Mitsubishi models
250 more from 20-30k ...8 of those are Tesla. 125 are new

I didn't expect there to be many EV yet. There are almost 18k hybrids under 30k

The poor living in cities take the bus now. Over time, there will be a lot more lower priced new and used. Either way, for the truly poor it is a non-issue...it should have a downward effect on gas prices as demand will go down. I expect politicians to mess that up with taxes though.

That doesn't change the problems with batteries or disposal or geopolitical economics.

 

[Hay Dude]

We aren’t talking hybrids here my man, we are talking pure EVs. The ICE age is over lol.
The poor living in cities do NOT always take the bus. Millions of city working people have cars.
One of my kids goes to grad school in Philly. My niece and her husband also live in Philadelphia. I’m there all the time. Was talking to them about EV ownership and they kind of laughed in my face. Both college educated, one has a job. Live in typical mid rise apartment. They have no on site parking. That is very typical. They drive an old GMC Acadia.
Where the heck can they park and charge an EV overnight, (when ALL people charge EVs) even if it cost $1.

 

[lman]

We aren’t talking hybrids here my man, we are talking pure EVs. The ICE age is over lol.
The poor living in cities do NOT always take the bus. Millions of city working people have cars.
One of my kids goes to grad school in Philly. My niece and her husband also live in Philadelphia. I’m there all the time. Was talking to them about EV ownership and they kind of laughed in my face. Both college educated, one has a job. Live in typical mid rise apartment. They have no on site parking. That is very typical. They drive an old GMC Acadia.
Where the heck can they park and charge an EV overnight, (when ALL people charge EVs) even if it cost $1.

Guess they will have to ride their bikes.

 

[Hay Dude]

Guess they will have to ride their bikes.

Yes that sounds about right. What small luxury city people have (a car, maybe with air conditioning) has to be surrendered by 2030 in CA.
Only the wealthy suburbanites will have their EVs with strong AC.
The city people will ride bikes in the 100* heat or some lousy bus.

Sign me up!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Keep in mind in cities future EV ownership is projected to be functional nonexistent.

 

[airbiscuit]

We somehow managed to transition from the horse to the automobile. Not every issue and contingency has been resolved - yet. The move to EVs wont be a light switch moment. Whatever happens will take place oer time. That said, given the disruption of Tesla, and the direction of major auto manufacturers to EV - something's going to happen.

There is a very good chance my children will own an EV at some point. I'm not sure if I will, but it's possible.

This thread is an interesting peek into how people must have resisted technological advances in the past.

 

[MossRoad]

What small luxury city people have (a car, maybe with air conditioning) has to be surrendered by 2030 in CA.

What?

 

[wagne223]

Yes that sounds about right. What small luxury city people have (a car, maybe with air conditioning) has to be surrendered by 2030 in CA.
Only the wealthy suburbanites will have their EVs with strong AC.
The city people will ride bikes in the 100* heat or some lousy bus.

Sign me up!

I'm on the fence with the EV revolution, but let's be fair......the government is not forcing people to buy EV's
So far, the EV orders (both CA and Bidens EO) state that no new ICE vehicles can be sold as of the effective date. The current orders do not require ICE owners to give up their cars.
However, operating an ICE vehicle after that date will be increasingly more difficult (parts availability) and expensive (parts, oil and gasoline)

California Mandates Electric Cars for 2035 and Here's What That Means | Edmunds

Under Gov. Gavin Newsom, California has issued a directive to eliminate vehicle emissions starting in 2035, which theoretically means all new vehicles from that point on will need to be EVs. Here's what it means to you.

www.edmunds.com

 

[MossRoad]

Count me in on the side of major concern as to how apartment dwellers and those that have on-street parking are going to charge their cars. We have many large apartment complexes here. Imagine the cost of running underground wiring to each parking spot in an apartment complex. Some people only have one car. Some have two. Some complexes only allow 2 with assigned parking. Some have no limits or assigned parking. Let's say you have 500 units and 1000 parking spaces. You have to provide 1000 chargers even though there might be some number between 500 and 1000 that only have 1 car.

Then there's the old houses converted into apartments. Anywhere from 1 to a dozen apartments in the house. It's all on-street parking. How are you going to even be sure you can get a parking spot with a charger when there's no assigned street parking.

Anyone remember wintertime parking in cities? Shovel out your spot. Walk around the corner to get your car and come back to find another car in your spot? Now ad a charger to that situation. Yikes!

Many obstacles/items to be thought out and implemented slowly. It can't be an overnight switch.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

This thread is an interesting peek into how people must have resisted technological advances in the past.

Big assumption to say it’s a technological advancement. Some believe it’s going the opposite way. The more you change the state of a fuel, the more fuel it takes.

 

[/pine]

The solution is obvious...The future of EVs is an energy source that does not have to be recharged (from a third party source) on a regular basis...

battery based electric vehicles will be going the way of VHS...it's only a matter (NPI) of time...

 

[Larry Caldwell]

We aren’t talking hybrids here my man, we are talking pure EVs. The ICE age is over lol.
The poor living in cities do NOT always take the bus. Millions of city working people have cars.
One of my kids goes to grad school in Philly. My niece and her husband also live in Philadelphia. I’m there all the time. Was talking to them about EV ownership and they kind of laughed in my face. Both college educated, one has a job. Live in typical mid rise apartment. They have no on site parking. That is very typical. They drive an old GMC Acadia.
Where the heck can they park and charge an EV overnight, (when ALL people charge EVs) even if it cost $1.

It will be interesting to see if vehicle ownership takes a big dip in the US. Roughly 8.7% of Americans do not have access to a vehicle, which has been more or less stable for the last three years. New Jersey vehicle registrations have dropped 33% between 2012 and 2018, while other states increased. The rise of driver-owned cab companies like Uber and Lyft has allowed many urban people to dispense with car ownership, at the cost of a little convenience.

The big threat to vehicle ownership I see is not the rise of the EV, it's the rise of vehicle prices. If an electric pickup is $20,000 cheaper than an ICE pickup, they will dominate the market.

Car Ownership Statistics in the U.S.

The rate of car ownership in the U.S. has been trending upward.

www.valuepenguin.com

 

[dmccarty]

From the Wall Street Journal, the story is likely behind a paywall, GM’s Chevy Bolt Recall Casts Shadow Over EV Push

GM this month expanded the Bolt safety recall for the second time, calling back the roughly 142,000 models built since it went on sale five years ago. The Detroit auto maker also paused production of all new Bolts. The safety action on its lone U.S. electric car will cost GM an estimated $1.8 billion, or around $12,700 per car, among its costliest recalls.

Hyundai Motors Co. early this year said it would spend about $900 million to recall roughly 80,000 electric SUVs after around a dozen fires, many of which occurred while the vehicle was parked at a full state of charge. Hyundai also cited a defect in the vehicles’ LG-supplied batteries.

The cost of replacing a battery pack can range from around $5,000 for smaller, less-expensive cars to more than $30,000 for those used in high-performance models, said James Davies, chief executive of analytics company We Predict. He said manufacturing defects in battery cells often lead to full replacement of the battery pack, because it can be difficult to pinpoint which cells are bad.

GM has lost quite a bit money selling the Bolt and Hyundai is loosing about the same about per vehicle on that SUV model. The might be able to claw back some of the battery company but will that cover the total loss?

Later,
Dan

 

[buckeyefarmer]

The big threat to vehicle ownership I see is not the rise of the EV, it's the rise of vehicle prices. If an electric pickup is $20,000 cheaper than an ICE pickup, they will dominate the market.

Cool, they will be paying me to take their electric vehicles, as I rarely spend over $20k for one.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Another big reason for sales dip is the screwed up world, Toyota said big reduction in production due to they can’t get parts.