Shuttle Valve For Lawn Sprinkler System?

[npalen]

SHUTTLE VALVE WORKING PRINCIPLE

SHUTTLE VALVE WORKING PRINCIPLE

www.hkdivedi.com

Here's the issue: My Sister in Law's automatic sprinkler system has one zone with too many sprinkler heads to operate at one time so it has two ball valves that have to be manually switched to do half at a time. The ideal solution, of course, would be to install another solenoid valve but the distance is quite a ways from the controller to run the control wire.

The shuttle valve shown above is what could be used except it it designed to COMBINE two inputs into one output. I need a solution that does just the opposite. It would need to direct the pump flow to one side of the tee for watering half of the zone and then to the other side to water the rest of the zone. It would automatically switch to the other outlet of the tee when the upstream solenoid switches off and relieves pressure. Then the rest of the sprinklers on that zone would be watered and the process repeated for the next watering cycle.

I know it's a long shot but wondering if such a valve exists or whether something similar could be cobbled to achieve the desired results. TIA.

 

[MossRoad]

SHUTTLE VALVE WORKING PRINCIPLE

SHUTTLE VALVE WORKING PRINCIPLE

www.hkdivedi.com

Here's the issue: My Sister in Law's automatic sprinkler system has one zone with too many sprinkler heads to operate at one time so it has two ball valves that have to be manually switched to do half at a time. The ideal solution, of course, would be to install another solenoid valve but the distance is quite a ways from the controller to run the control wire.

The shuttle valve shown above is what could be used except it it designed to COMBINE two inputs into one output. I need a solution that does just the opposite. It would need to direct the pump flow to one side of the tee for watering half of the zone and then to the other side to water the rest of the zone. It would automatically switch to the other outlet of the tee when the upstream solenoid switches off and relieves pressure. Then the rest of the sprinklers on that zone would be watered and the process repeated for the next watering cycle.

I know it's a long shot but wondering if such a valve exists or whether something similar could be cobbled to achieve the desired results. TIA.

The only thing that I could think of to do would be to put a timer at the current valve location.
Remove the valve from it's current location.
Remove both ball valves.
Put in a timer with a on-off-on switch to run off of the original valve's wiring.
Put the original electric valve in place of one of the ball valves.
Put in a new electric valve to where the other ball valve was.
Have the timer feed both valves.

When power is applied to the circuit, the timer applies current to one valve. When it times out, it sends power to the other valve.

So say you want water to run for 20 minutes on each leg. Set sprinkler timer for that zone for 40 minutes, set timer for 20 minutes. It'll switch half way through the cycle.

Personally, I'd just run another control wire and install a 2nd valve.

 

[npalen]

"Personally, I'd just run another control wire and install a 2nd valve"

Yes, that would be the best long term solution.

Using a timer to do the switching electrically is a good idea except the existing valve with its 24VAC is about 100 feet from the tee and the two ball valves so would require trenching in a cable. Also, there are switches on the market designed to control two or more valves in a valve box when the wire to one or more of them has been broken somewhere.
I've sometimes wondered why a low voltage cable couldn't be threaded inside an existing water pipe. I know it sounds silly but if there was a way of creating a leak proof entry and exit for the wire.........

They need to invent PVC sprinkler pipe with embedded control wires with plug-ins for signal entry and exit points.

Sorry, us old retired folks have nothing better to think about.

 

[MossRoad]

"Personally, I'd just run another control wire and install a 2nd valve"

Yes, that would be the best long term solution.

Using a timer to do the switching electrically is a good idea except the existing valve with its 24VAC is about 100 feet from the tee and the two ball valves so would require trenching in a cable. Also, there are switches on the market designed to control two or more valves in a valve box when the wire to one or more of them has been broken somewhere.
I've sometimes wondered why a low voltage cable couldn't be threaded inside an existing water pipe. I know it sounds silly but if there was a way of creating a leak proof entry and exit for the wire.........

They need to invent PVC sprinkler pipe with embedded control wires with plug-ins for signal entry and exit points.

Sorry, us old retired folks have nothing better to think about.

No. You need a 24V timer to operate the 24 volt valves. That way you could just use the existing wire.

And don't laugh. When you mentioned running wire, about the 1st thing I thought of was, man, if they could only run the wire inside the pipe and make it exit leakproof.

 

[MossRoad]

I think it would be called a time-delay relay. When power is applied, it starts the delay. At the set time, it would open or close, and you could use that function to apply power to the 2nd valve.

Anyhow, it's possible. I'm sure someone else will have a better idea.

 

[MossRoad]

Well heck. Here you go...

 

[npalen]

No. You need a 24V timer to operate the 24 volt valves. That way you could just use the existing wire.

And don't laugh. When you mentioned running wire, about the 1st thing I thought of was, man, if they could only run the wire inside the pipe and make it exit leakproof.

No. You need a 24V timer to operate the 24 volt valves. That way you could just use the existing wire.
Not sure what you mean. Would still have to run a cable the 100 feet, no?


And don't laugh. When you mentioned running wire, about the 1st thing I thought of was, man, if they could only run the wire inside the pipe and make it exit leakproof.

Great minds think alike, eh?

https://www.amazon.com/Schedule-Pipe-Fitting-Snap-Fipt/dp/B01DO6OA7K/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=pvc+snap+on+saddle+tee+1%22&qid=1629219821&sr=8-7

Why couldn't a person drill a small hole near each end of the pipe and then pull the cable. Glue one of these saddle fittings over each hole and install a regular 1/2" electrical compression fitting to seal around the wire?
Would be easy enough to pull the wire especially in 1" PVC pipe if no elbows involved. Even then it wouldn't be difficult to install another pair of saddle fittings if necessary to "bypass" the fitting.

I've used the PVC snap on saddle valves and they do work well.

I know, water and electricity don't mix, but in reality they would be isolated and it's only 24VAC.
Somebody will say, "not to code", and I get that.

 

[MossRoad]

No. You need a 24V timer to operate the 24 volt valves. That way you could just use the existing wire.
Not sure what you mean. Would still have to run a cable the 100 feet, no?

Ahh... your electric valve is 100' from your ball valves? I didn't think of that. Crud.

Well. I do have an older version of one of these that I use to water my yard, garden and flower beds. Up to 4 zones. It's battery operated (2 AA cells). You could put it at the TEE where your two lines split and set the clock. It would work just fine. You'd have to make a couple adapters.

This is a 2 zone system. $40 solution.

Orbit 2-Outlet Programmable Hose Watering Timer Sprinkler Timer 56544 - The Home Depot

Gain a perfect addition to your gardening tools with the choice of this wonderful Orbit Hose Faucet Timer.

www.homedepot.com

Mine has been in service for about 10 years. The batteries last more than a full season. The clock is very accurate. Put it in right at your tee and you'd be good to go.

 

[npalen]

Ahh... your electric valve is 100' from your ball valves? I didn't think of that. Crud.

Well. I do have an older version of one of these that I use to water my yard, garden and flower beds. Up to 4 zones. It's battery operated (2 AA cells). You could put it at the TEE where your two lines split and set the clock. It would work just fine. You'd have to make a couple adapters.

This is a 2 zone system. $40 solution.

Orbit 2-Outlet Programmable Hose Watering Timer Sprinkler Timer 56544 - The Home Depot

Gain a perfect addition to your gardening tools with the choice of this wonderful Orbit Hose Faucet Timer.

www.homedepot.com

Mine has been in service for about 10 years. The batteries last more than a full season. The clock is very accurate. Put it in right at your tee and you'd be good to go.

That's excellent! I've seen them online but only in single station. Thanks!

 

[grsthegreat]

I like that doubler. Never seen that before. Could have used it in the past.

 

[dirttoys]

Smart Water Valve,Wifi Control Water/Gas Shut Off Valve APP Remote,Voice Control Timing Controler,Compatible with Alexa Google Assistant IFTTT,Automatic Valve Wide Range of Uses Kitchen Garden Farm - - Amazon.com

Smart Water Valve,Wifi Control Water/Gas Shut Off Valve APP Remote,Voice Control Timing Controler,Compatible with Alexa Google Assistant IFTTT,Automatic Valve Wide Range of Uses Kitchen Garden Farm - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[mwemaxxowner]

I used two of these with hose end sprinklers all last summer. Several times I wondered if I could extend the wires to the little solenoid valves and put one wherever my heart desires no matter where the timer itself is. I don't see why not.

It worked really well for me, and I've used one this year with my garden.

Complete Yard Watering Kit

Yard watering kit quickly turns one faucet into a complete full irrigation system. Available direct from Orbit Irrigation.

www.orbitonline.com

 

[npalen]

I like that doubler. Never seen that before. Could have used it in the past.

Yes, it's awesome what info can be found on TBN from those kind enough to share it!

 

[MossRoad]

I use my Orbit 4 station system with 3 automatic and 1 manual. 1 does the rear flower beds and planters with drippers, 2 does the front flower beds, planters, and bird bath (before they asked us to take in bird baths for that disease), and 3 does a sprinkler in the front lawn. I use the manual on the garden and to wash the car.

I was skeptical when I bought it as it only uses 2AA batteries. But years of use show that 2 batteries operate it all season long. I even took the batteries out in the fall and put them back in the following spring and it kept working. All the batteries do is keep the clock going, and open or close the valves. I don't think they hold the valves open or closed, so it's not continuous draw. Very nice. I bring it in every winter to the house so it doesn't freeze.

 

[npalen]

I use my Orbit 4 station system with 3 automatic and 1 manual. 1 does the rear flower beds and planters with drippers, 2 does the front flower beds, planters, and bird bath (before they asked us to take in bird baths for that disease), and 3 does a sprinkler in the front lawn. I use the manual on the garden and to wash the car.

I was skeptical when I bought it as it only uses 2AA batteries. But years of use show that 2 batteries operate it all season long. I even took the batteries out in the fall and put them back in the following spring and it kept working. All the batteries do is keep the clock going, and open or close the valves. I don't think they hold the valves open or closed, so it's not continuous draw. Very nice. I bring it in every winter to the house so it doesn't freeze.

Wonder how well these would do in an underground valve box that might get flooded on occasion?
The prices seem reasonable. Why couldn't a person piggyback a couple "four holers" if more than four stations were needed for a new installation?

 

[mwemaxxowner]

One of mine was set up but laying on the ground for a while. Through some heavy rains it was fine, but I know that's not the same as being submerged.

If you teed them off the same main line source I don't see why you couldn't use two for 8 different zones.

I have low water pressure and low flow, so I had one set up on a spigot on one side of the house, one on the other side. I had 8 impact sprinklers running off of them, with hoses hidden in my pin needles for my "above ground" sprinkler system. It worked well. I could easily adapt the hose threads to tie into PVC, poly, or pex pipe.

Almost through the second season now and I haven't had to change batteries in either of them.

 

[mwemaxxowner]

With the one I used, if you can lengthen the wires, you don't even need to use the manifold. Just buy the valves (sold separately. My pack came with 2).

 

[3Ts]

What you are looking for is a sprinkler indexing valve. These were used extensively in Florida lawn sprinklers for many years until the solenoids became cost effective. It has 2 or more outputs with a single input. All water goes to one output until the pump stops. The valve then indexes to the next outlet and the pump restarts and all water goes to the 2nd outlet. It requires a drop in the incoming water pressure to index the valve - it is all mechanical, no wiring needed.

Here's a link to one:
Sprinkler indexing valve

 

[MossRoad]

Wonder how well these would do in an underground valve box that might get flooded on occasion?
The prices seem reasonable. Why couldn't a person piggyback a couple "four holers" if more than four stations were needed for a new installation?

I'm guessing they wouldn't work if flooded. They're meant to be mounted on a hose bib.

No reason you couldn't put several of the controllers in a space off of a Y or multiple Y's or T's. The clocks are very accurate. I've had mine set to go 5 minutes before I leave for work. It's kept time for years.

Another bonus of battery operated:
It's not affected by power outages.

 

[MossRoad]

What you are looking for is a sprinkler indexing valve. These were used extensively in Florida lawn sprinklers for many years until the solenoids became cost effective. It has 2 or more outputs with a single input. All water goes to one output until the pump stops. The valve then indexes to the next outlet and the pump restarts and all water goes to the 2nd outlet. It requires a drop in the incoming water pressure to index the valve - it is all mechanical, no wiring needed.

Here's a link to one:
Sprinkler indexing valve

That would work. Nice.