Skid steer snow blower on tractor loader?

[hayden]

I have a Kubota L5740 and for years have been clearing a 1/2 mile road plus parking areas with a rear mount PTO snow blower. It works well, but as I get older, being twisted around to see and work backwards is getting old. So I have started thinking about a front mount snow blower.

Kubota of course makes one, but it involves a substantial sub frame that doesn't look easy to install and remove, and as I understand it, the sub frame is incompatible with using the loader. So even if you remove the blower itself, you still can't use the loader unless you remove the whole sub frame. That just won't work for me.

So I've been thinking about using a skid steer snow blower. I have a SS mount on my loader, and I have front hydraulic remotes that could be used for chute rotation. But I don't have enough hydraulic power to drive the blower. I've seen specs in the 16-21 gpm, so I'm figuring on 20 gpm as a round number. I think my choices are a rear PTO pump, or a mid PTO pump. The mid PTO runs at about twice the RPM of the rear PTO, so a smaller pump will work, But somehow I'd have to mount and secure the pump. For a rear PTO there are a variety of commercially available kits, but on first check they seem a bit pricey.

Anyway, I'm interested in thoughts on this approach, and especially interested if anyone has done this before.

Thanks in advance

 

[nybirdman]

You are correct;very expensive($15K) for a front blower for your machine.
I had a Kubota sub-frame set-up and used a snow plow,you are right must remove to reinstall FEL,not that bad if you have a solid pad to do the exchange on.
I can't justify a blower for my uses,have a FEL mounted plow and like that set-up.

 

[shooterdon]

After looking at front mount blowers on the L series Kubota and the LS I came to the same conclusion. I do not want to deal with a subframe that has to installed for the winter and taken off or hooking up a mid mount PTO laying on my back.

I bought a pull blower for my LS. FarmKing 74" for $4k new two years ago. Plus I can mount an old rear blade on a SSQA adapter so I have a blade for scraping and light snow falls. The SSQA adapter was just over $200 but has gone up in price:

Amazon.com: 3-Point Attachment Adapter for Universal Skid Steers, Quick-Attach Equipment : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Amazon.com: 3-Point Attachment Adapter for Universal Skid Steers, Quick-Attach Equipment : Patio, Lawn & Garden

www.amazon.com

I bought an old light duty blade for $100. So I have less than $4500 in my snow removal.

With a light snowfall, you can windrow the snow and then one pass with the blower and you are done.

I get 100-140" of snow a year and so far so good.

 

[4570Man]

Would a plow not do most of the work for you and not have to spend a lot of money or work backwards?

 

[hayden]

Would a plow not do most of the work for you and not have to spend a lot of money or work backwards?

A neighbor plows, but the snow blower is needed for better clean up, and to get the snow more out of the way. It’s a wooded road with limited room to push snow. Eventually is just starts caving back in. The blower is slower, but does a much, much better job -at least in my situation.

 

[oldnslo]

Depending on your snow fall amounts if a rear pull type blower an option? Much less costly than front mount.

 

[hayden]

Depending on your snow fall amounts if a rear pull type blower an option? Much less costly than front mount.

Tempting, but I don't think so. I think the tractor would pack down a 12" snow fall enough that it would be difficult for the pull blower to then pick it up. I also have a number of areas where I really need to be able to go in auger-first. Especially when I need to break open a path to reach the propane tanks for filling. I can be cutting into 3' of snow at that point - way more than the tractor can drive through, even with very aggressive chains.

 

[hayden]

So I'm really interested in whether anyone has experience with a 3ph mounted tank and pump assembly, or perhaps has built one. As I said earlier, I think I need about 20 gpm, but the snow blowers I've seen don't specify the pressure. So in the absence of a spec, I'm presuming 3000 psi. I think some skid steers probably go up to 5000 psi, but I think I'm OK holding it at 3000. With that, 20 gpm at 3000 psi should take about 40 PTO HP which I have. In fact, I might just need 5000 PSI to get equivalent power to what I have now. The snow blower is the only thing that really bogs down the engine, so it's consuming the full 55+ hp available at the PTO. 40 HP would be comparatively under powered. I don't want to have less power that I do now, at least not in an y significant way.

One thing I like about this whole approach is that I should be able to leave the hydraulic power pack in place, and easily swap the blower and bucket as needed. And removing and reinstalling the power pack should be pretty easy too - just like any 3PH implement.

 

[4570Man]

A hydraulic drive like that is fairly inefficient. You’ll loose power regardless of what flow and pressure. That’s a trade off you’ll have to pay to drive forward. You might look into putting a motor on the snow thrower and power it that way.

 

[hayden]

A hydraulic drive like that is fairly inefficient. You’ll loose power regardless of what flow and pressure. That’s a trade off you’ll have to pay to drive forward. You might look into putting a motor on the snow thrower and power it that way.

Yes, I understand there will be some power loss, so all the more important that I be able to extract max available PTO power.

A stand-alone motor on the snow blower is an option too, but we would be looking at around a 50 hp motor, plus whatever clutch and gear reduction is required. That's a pretty big motor, and hard to believe it would be less expansive than a hydraulic power pack.

Speaking of which.... I see Erskin makes a 25 gpm power pack for a bit under $7k. Not cheap by any means, but combined with a SSQA snow blower, still probably less that a Kubota blower plus mount....

 

[shooterdon]

Tempting, but I don't think so. I think the tractor would pack down a 12" snow fall enough that it would be difficult for the pull blower to then pick it up. I also have a number of areas where I really need to be able to go in auger-first. Especially when I need to break open a path to reach the propane tanks for filling. I can be cutting into 3' of snow at that point - way more than the tractor can drive through, even with very aggressive chains.

I keep access to my propane tanks open using the pull blower, and back dragging with the front blade where needed. No reason to let the access path build over multiple snow events. If I had a small area with deep snow, it would not take long to put on the FEL to scoop it out.

But I have only gone through two winters, so I may run into issues down the road.

Maximum snowfall I have handled was 10” and no problems driving over the snow. Like you, I was concerned with what would happen with a huge dump...say 18”. That is not common in my region but has happened (once in last 9 years). IMO the pull blower might need two passes. Worst case, use the blade after blowing if tires pack the snow down too much.

 

[oldnslo]

Most Skid steers have max pressure of 3,000 - 3,500 some newer ones are now pushing 4,000 PSI but they typically require attachments made to handle that pressure.

There is at least one or two members of this site that have PTO driven power packs on the 3PH for the FEL mounted blower. I believe grtsthe8 or something like is one of the members.
Flow in GPM provides the blower speed while pressure across the motor provides the torque.

You would need to run the hydraulic lines down the loader arms and have some quick disconnects up front for easy installation and removal of the blower.

 

[crashz]

You may have some power loss, but I think the maneuverability (adjusting attack angle lifting, etc) is a benefit. And if cooled properly, you may be able to run a big SS brush cutter on the front of the tractor in the summer. I wish I could do that often!

 

[4570Man]

What about buying a skid steer? Less work, and it would retain its value better. Sure it would cost you $30,000 for a good used one but it would be a lot more useful than a power pack is and you could sell it if you ever needed to. A power pack will be a tough sale.

 

[hayden]

What about buying a skid steer? Less work, and it would retain its value better. Sure it would cost you $30,000 for a good used one but it would be a lot more useful than a power pack is and you could sell it if you ever needed to. A power pack will be a tough sale.

I have to confess that I'm one of only two or three people in the world who don't like skid steers. I've used them a couple of times and just didn't care for them. If you are on anything other than a packed dirt construction site, they just tear up the ground. In find I can almost always do better between a wheeled tractor and an excavator.

 

[4570Man]

I agree they’re hard on the ground. I figured that wouldn’t be a big problem on a frozen driveway. If I have to do anything on grass I use my mini x or tractor because the skid is so hard on the ground.

 

[hayden]

I agree they’re hard on the ground. I figured that wouldn’t be a big problem on a frozen driveway. If I have to do anything on grass I use my mini x or tractor because the skid is so hard on the ground.

I also used a skid steer once for heavy snow removal and traction was poor. In general I have found R4 construction have poor traction. Tracks aren't bad unless it's icy. I slide sideways on a dozer once for 30-40 feet before I could spin it around and get it to stop. So far cleated chains on R1 tires seem the best. Pretty much unstoppable as long as the undercarriage is above the snow. And completely immune to ice. So the combination of tractor, chains, and snow blower works really well for me. I just would really like the snow blower to be on the front rather than the rear.

I found a thread a few years ago on this subject and one guy was, how shall I say it, insistent that a Pronovost front blower with mid PTO drive kit was the only solution. Just did a little search and can't find such a beast, so maybe no longer made? I agree that a direct drive off the mid PTO would be ideal in terms of power, but it has to be something that I can remove and reinstall easily so I can switch between bucket/loader and snow blower. The Kubota frame mount definitely fails on that front.

 

[ruffdog]

 

[grsthegreat]

i have a front mount hydraulic blower on my unit. purchased in 2010. works flawlessly since then. i have a rear 25 gal hydraulic powerplant. i had bids for a quality built rear 3 point blower in the 6-7 grand range, but got this unit for about 2x that price.

doesnt matter, as a rear mount would not work for the projects i needed this for. i had to be able to lift it high to clear roof shedding. and a subframe mount would not lift far enough.

 

[dstig1]

While Messicks makes some good points, it is kind of offset by the ridiculous size of the blower they are showing. That thing looks like 8' and it is clearly way too big for that machine. A properly sized unit would be perfectly fine in that setup, as Grsthegreat indicates for his setup. If you are curious about the subframe, I have attached the manual for it as I spent a lot of time looking into this for my Sweeper rebuild/modification that is still underway. My thread for that is in the Build It Yourself subforum here. Should be easy to find if you are interested. The subframe requires you to remove the loader but not the loader frame, and it appears to be fairly manageable IMO. Seeing as I had the hydraulic sweeper already and wanted it on the FEL, I was going that route (plus I go a little nutz with my projects... ). But if you want to buy a complete setup with rear hydraulic power pack and FEL mounted blower, Erskine would probably be the place I would start. It won't be cheap...