DK5310se HST Won't Start **Emergency**

[Kwehme09]

Kioti DK5310se HST won't start. Tractor is hooked to livestock trailer in remote field, and I need to move the animals home tonight.

Turn the key, hear a click, but nothing else. Battery is good. PTO off, seat switch ok, in neutral.

If I jump two big post on solenoid, the starter spins but doesn't engage the fly wheel. Everyone in awhile it will make the fly wheel flinch, but that's it. The starter spins good whenever I jumper it though. Not sure why this is.

I need to get this thing started, any ideas?

I feel lime its a safety switch issue somewhere, but no sure how to override.

 

[K5lwq]

If it is clicking I would think it is not a safety switch. The fact that starter spun but did not engage makes me think a bad connection or the battery is in fact at low voltage. Try using jumper cables from another vehicle if possible. Also check and clean cable connection both at the battery and grounds at the frame.

 

[Kwehme09]

Thanks for the quick reply. I have tried jumping from both a battery pack and another vehicle.

The click is not at the starter, I think it's just at a full shutoff or something. Even if both the start relay and fuse are out I get the same click. I've also tried replacing both the start fuse and relay. Battery terminals are clean. The tractor is only 6 months old.

 

[jthibodeau89]

Sounds like starter pinion is not advancing into flywheel teeth. Some pinions are advanced by soleniod, others by a spiral on the starter motor shaft. Mat need some grease on motor shaft. Unfortunately it means pulling the starter. Is starter direct drive, or gear reduction?

 

[Kwehme09]

Sounds like starter pinion is not advancing into flywheel teeth. Some pinions are advanced by soleniod, others by a spiral on the starter motor shaft. Mat need some grease on motor shaft. Unfortunately it means pulling the starter. Is starter direct drive, or gear reduction?

Why wouldn't this be happening when I turn the key? This is only happening when I jump to solenoid.

 

[K5lwq]

Maybe try jumper cables straight to the starter.

 

[jthibodeau89]

Missed that you were jumping starter and bypassing solenoid. I thought you meant you were hot wiring the solenoid coil.

In your case it sounds like the solenoid is what engages the pinion to the flywheel. If solenoid is bypassed, starter motor will run, but not engage.

Have you tried running a wire from solenoid coil direct to the battery side of the solenoid contacts. If solenoid doesn't pull in, theres your issue. Check resistance of solenoid terminal to ground.

 

[PILOON]

My first suspect would be bad grounds wherever large current has to pass.
Maybe battery terminals also.

Try negative jumper to engine and positive directly to starter terminal.
and that should by pass a lot of 'maybe's'.

You seem to have covered most other usual deterrents.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

 

[LouNY]

Without being able to see your starter and solenoid it is hard to describe the right way to bypass everything.
If the solenoid is mounted on the starter with the main battery cable coming to one large connector and a smaller wire attached to the same terminal,
then a second smaller wire and terminal on the solenoid, with another connection going to or into the starter.
The safer way is to use a push button remote starter, this is a tool with two wires and alligator clips,
one alligator clip will go to the terminal on the solenoid that has the battery cable coming to it.
The other alligator clip would attach to the smaller terminal of the solenoid that has lighter gauge wire coming to it from the wiring harness.
When the button pushed the engine should crank over, and with the key in the run position it would hopefully start.
Those are also the two terminals to jump to try and start with a screwdriver or pair of pliers,
the lager terminal with the battery cable and the smaller one on the solenoid.
Good luck

Also a good idea to put your range lever in neutral while doing this.

 

[k0ua]

Do you have a voltmeter and do you know how to use it? Do you have a layout of the starter relay and how it is wired (wire colors) and have you taken any measurements of the contacts on the starter relay? NOT talking about the starter solenoid here, I am talking about the starter relay. I don't have a schematic for you tractor, so I cannot give you wire colors or even location of the starter relay. Mine is on my firewall on the engine side.

 

[dirttoys]

Kioti DK5310se HST won't start. Tractor is hooked to livestock trailer in remote field, and I need to move the animals home tonight.

Turn the key, hear a click, but nothing else. Battery is good. PTO off, seat switch ok, in neutral.

If I jump two big post on solenoid, the starter spins but doesn't engage the fly wheel. Everyone in awhile it will make the fly wheel flinch, but that's it. The starter spins good whenever I jumper it though. Not sure why this is.

I need to get this thing started, any ideas?

I feel lime its a safety switch issue somewhere, but no sure how to override.

good news jumping the large posts should spin the starter, but, not engage the solenoid, so it is doing as expected.

Jump the battery side of the starter to the start post on the solenoid, and you should get spin and engagement.

Make sure the tractor is in neutral, brake set as starter can move the tractor.

Report back findings, and maybe we can provide additional hlep.

Best,


ed

 

[k0ua]

good news jumping the large posts should spin the starter, but, not engage the solenoid, so it is doing as expected.

Jump the battery side of the starter to the start post on the solenoid, and you should get spin and engagement.

Make sure the tractor is in neutral, brake set as starter can move the tractor.

Report back findings, and maybe we can provide additional hlep.

Best,


ed

And the tractor will likely NOT run because for all we know it is very likely that the fuel shutoff solenoid is not being moved initially or being held by the small "hold" current. Without voltage readings we cannot know. IF the start relay is not engaging why should we think the fuel solenoid is being engaged or held? We just don't know without voltage readings. We can guess a dozen things, or with some simple measurements we can know. Of course with jumping the starter and starter solenoid we will know the + voltage connections and ground connections are good. But we cannot expect the tractor to run.

As always, if you don't own and do not know how to use a voltmeter, and you cannot find someone that does, then the best bet is to get the tractor to the dealer, or have the dealer come out.

 

[Kwehme09]

Lots of good suggestions here that are getting a little beyond my skill level.

I do have a meter, but am not great with it. I have an electrician friend I will try enlist the help of tomorrow.

The starter solonoid has only two posts on, one is obviously the + side, since it hard a red covered over it, and the other is the black. This is what I have been jumpering across with no luck.

"Try negative jumper to engine and positive directly to starter terminal and that should by pass a lot of 'maybe's'"

I like the above idea. but I am not quite sure what is what, so a little moire description would be good.

If the solenoid is mounted on the starter with the main battery cable coming to one large connector and a smaller wire attached to the same terminal, then a second smaller wire and terminal on the solenoid, with another connection going to or into the starter.

Yes, it is directly mounted, but I only see two wires going into the solenoid. One being an obvious positive from the battery.

There is a relay in the fuse box labeled "Starter" and and also a fuse. There is another relay mounted outside the fuse box directly to the firewall. I am not sure what this relay is.

I have a call to the dealer, but I am not optimistic that they will be of much help. It's all made extra hard by the fact that the tractor is 2 miles down the road in a field.

 

[K5lwq]

I was hoping you got it going. Were you able to get the animals home another way?

 

[dirttoys]

Lots of good suggestions here that are getting a little beyond my skill level.

I do have a meter, but am not great with it. I have an electrician friend I will try enlist the help of tomorrow.

The starter solonoid has only two posts on, one is obviously the + side, since it hard a red covered over it, and the other is the black. This is what I have been jumpering across with no luck.



I like the above idea. but I am not quite sure what is what, so a little moire description would be good.



Yes, it is directly mounted, but I only see two wires going into the solenoid. One being an obvious positive from the battery.

There is a relay in the fuse box labeled "Starter" and and also a fuse. There is another relay mounted outside the fuse box directly to the firewall. I am not sure what this relay is.

I have a call to the dealer, but I am not optimistic that they will be of much help. It's all made extra hard by the fact that the tractor is 2 miles down the road in a field.

I always hate "I think" answers, but.

I don't have your tractor, but, I think this is the starter

Lots of good suggestions here that are getting a little beyond my skill level.

I do have a meter, but am not great with it. I have an electrician friend I will try enlist the help of tomorrow.

The starter solonoid has only two posts on, one is obviously the + side, since it hard a red covered over it, and the other is the black. This is what I have been jumpering across with no luck.



I like the above idea. but I am not quite sure what is what, so a little moire description would be good.



Yes, it is directly mounted, but I only see two wires going into the solenoid. One being an obvious positive from the battery.

There is a relay in the fuse box labeled "Starter" and and also a fuse. There is another relay mounted outside the fuse box directly to the firewall. I am not sure what this relay is.

I have a call to the dealer, but I am not optimistic that they will be of much help. It's all made extra hard by the fact that the tractor is 2 miles down the road in a field.

I hate I think posts, but, I don't have your tractor. In an effort to help, I think this is your starter, the empty large post is from the battery, the empty top blade should be from the ignition, and when supplied with 12 volts should engage the solenoid and spin the starter.

There certainly could be, and probably are issues beyond this (that is why I said report back your findings for additional guidance.

The fuse and relay, are generally in line with the ignition side, not the starter side, if we crank and fire with a jumper from the blade to the battery side, they are pretty good candidates.

Yup, get a meter and test if this doesn't help, looking for a quick test that doesn't require much for tools.

Good luck, let us know,

ed

 

[dirttoys]

And the tractor will likely NOT run because for all we know it is very likely that the fuel shutoff solenoid is not being moved initially or being held by the small "hold" current. Without voltage readings we cannot know. IF the start relay is not engaging why should we think the fuel solenoid is being engaged or held? We just don't know without voltage readings. We can guess a dozen things, or with some simple measurements we can know. Of course with jumping the starter and starter solenoid we will know the + voltage connections and ground connections are good. But we cannot expect the tractor to run.

As always, if you don't own and do not know how to use a voltmeter, and you cannot find someone that does, then the best bet is to get the tractor to the dealer, or have the dealer come out.

Always best to use the right tools, and certainly a meter will tell us more than a jumper. OP seemed to want something quick and handy. This test would likely cover ignition switch, fuse, and relay with just a pair of pliers.

Exhaustive and complete? Nope. Valid and easy? Yup.

Best,

ed

 

[Kwehme09]

Thank you all! This gives me some good things to try. I will get back after it tomorrow. I am also going to grab a new "Starter Relay" which is what I assume the one bolted to the firewall is, in addition to the relay labeled "starter" in the fuse box.

Dirttoys, Yes, that looks like my starter. When I jumper the two poles with a screw driver it usually just spins, and sometimes it throws the flywheel for just a second. May I am bumping the small blade post without realizing it?

I was able to get my truck to the tractor, and drag the tractor off the trailer enough to get the truck onto it and bring the animals home. Our small homestead farm usually runs pretty smoothly, but the last 2 weeks has been Murphy's law at its finest: The unexpected passing of my father in-law, goats going missing for multiple nights, broken hydraulic line on a borrowed excavator (fixed), and now the dead tractor on Sunday morning when I needed it to move fill to keep progressing going with the excavator. Can't wait for our vacation next week (Canoeing the Allagash in Northern Maine), but I sure as heck need to get this tractor going o prep a few things around the farm before we go.

Sorry for the rant. IU can vertically say, I sure do appreciate community, both physical and digital, when things get tough. Thanks for the help all. I will keep you updated.

 

[k0ua]

OK, lets try this:.. Lets make some ASSumptions and assume your tractor is built like my tractor. Assume you have 3 relays on the firewall of the tractor on the engine side. One of these relays is built a little heavier duty than the other two. If you can locate this relay with the larger wires and heavier connections, you could ASSume that relay is the glow plug relay. Now, the other two will be either the stop solenoid control relay that kicks the large (25 amps 1 second pulse) for the fuel solenoid up on the injector pump and then is held by the small current coil of this same solenoid by the key buss. So then the remaining relay is the starter solenoid relay. This relay coil is activated by the key start position buss positive voltage, and the ground side of the coil goes thru all of the safety switches and modules.

NOW, we have made at least a dozen ASSumptions, not the least of which the largest one that your tractor and my tractor are built the same. Without a workshop manual and a voltmeter and the knowledge to go with it, you are peeing in the wind. If you like I can post some pictures from the workshop manual of my tractor with is probably 10 years older and not even close to the same model. I will state that "back in the day" the two most likely components to fail in a Kioti that will NOT crank is the starter solenoid relay on the firewall, followed by the keyswitch itself.

 

[jthibodeau89]

You have my sympathies on the sudden passing of your FiL. Murphy and i are well acquainted as well.

Just use a screwdriver to short between the positve terminal on starter and the blade. That will tell you if the starter is engaging.

If the starter is OK, then there is either something in the circuit that is preventing the starter relay from activating, or one of the relays in the starter circuit are bad. Really need a circuit schematic to diagnose. With out diagnosis, you are just swapping parts hoping to find the bad one.

 

[IndyJay]

Glad to hear you got the animals squared away. Condolences to you and your family and best of luck getting the tractor running.