Just another UDT oil question.

[fried1765]

Just to further cloud the issue . .

The Magnuson-Moss Act is only applicable to “consumer products.” The act states “The term “consumer product” means any tangible personal property which is distributed in commerce and which is normally used for personal, family, or household purposes (including any such property intended to be attached to or installed in any real property without regard to whether it is so attached or installed).”

Agricultural products such as farm machinery, structures and implements used in the business or occupation of farming are not covered by the Act where their personal, family, or household use is uncommon. However, those agricultural products normally used for personal or household gardening (for example, to produce goods for personal consumption, and not for resale) are consumer products under the Act.

The (attorney crafted) language may be just vague enough to leave the manufacturer a loophole, for not using their "recommended" hydraulic fluid.
If you take a warranty risk by using an "off brand" hyd. fluid, just how much will it be worth in time and dollars, to fight the manufacturer for what YOU claim is your due?

 

[KubotaToy]

Anybody here have any documented case(s) of warranty denial due to the use of "compatible parts or consumables"?

Was not denied warranty but had CAT take oil samples and confiscate my filters off a new excavator after a pump failure that took out a lot of parts with it. Of course their first root cause was I used the incorrect oil and filters as they seen that before in this type of failure, but they quickly backed down after I asked the for the sample results and pictures of the filters, then told them to check their records as I had their techs do all the service on it within the timeframe and hours required using 100% Cat oil and filters.

I have owned a lot of equipment over the years, very few times have I thought it cost effective to buy non-branded maintenance products. Even Cat oil was only a few dollars more than name brand oils. So, unless you use the generic branded oils and filter, you really do not save that much. I can buy Wix for my L45 for around 9 dollars, Kubota filter on Amazon is 10-11 dollars...

 

[ptsg]

Kubota has become very touchy' about warranty related issues that involve lubricant related failures, so why cheap out. Makes no sense to me. JD is the same way now. Especially true with HST's.

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more and with more brands, specially considering that some people as constantly looking for a way so sue someone or take advantage of a dealer and/or warranty.

In Europe, any vehicle has to be serviced by the dealer in order to keep the warranty intact. Either the dealer comes to the place where the vehicle is (in case of offroad vehicles) or the vehicle goes to the dealer (in case of the on road vehicles). The dealer actually signs a warranty booklet that comes with the vehicle so it acts as a proof that the service was done by the dealer.

This pretty much keeps people from trying to file a warranty claim for damage that they may have caused by using wrong filters, lubricants, parts, etc.

 

[Username Taken]

Certainly there must be one poor soul on TBN that rolled the dice and had his tractor destroyed by using non Kubota consumables.

I'm not trying to be belligerent, I simply want to put some real world metrics behind the fear of not using OEM fluids in stuff whether it be your car, boat, truck, tractor, etc.. Thus far, if you leave your emotions behind and consider the facts that are presented, there is little evidence that non-OEM fluids create the disaster that is so popularly touted.

Agreed.

When did Kubota buy their own oil refinery? From what I gather, Japan is barely a blip on the screen when it comes to oil refining. Somebody is making their oils for them.

As long as it meets specs, I'm okay with it. But, like I said, I use OEM stuff while it's under warranty. Except for engine oil. Never, ever in all my years of driving, my brother owning his own auto repair shop, my buddy being a diesel mechanic, never have I heard of a warranty denial for not using OEM engine oil.

Hydraulic oil? I have no experience in.

 

[5030]

When did Kubota buy their own oil refinery? From what I gather, Japan is barely a blip on the screen when it comes to oil refining. Somebody is making their oils for them.

Gee, of course some refinery is. I'll tell you who too... Valvoline. But it's refined to Kubota specs and you cannot buy it from Valvoline, only from Kubota. Put that in your pipe and smoke it..

 

[5030]

Bottom line here is, I don't give a hoot what anyone uses, don't care if they pee in the gearbox, don't matter to me at all. I use Kubota fluids and filters and always have. What you do is your business, not mine.

 

[fried1765]

Gee, of course some refinery is. I'll tell you who too... Valvoline. But it's refined to Kubota specs and you cannot buy it from Valvoline, only from Kubota. Put that in your pipe and smoke it..

TRUE!

 

[5030]

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more and with more brands, specially considering that some people as constantly looking for a way so sue someone or take advantage of a dealer and/or warranty.

In Europe, any vehicle has to be serviced by the dealer in order to keep the warranty intact. Either the dealer comes to the place where the vehicle is (in case of offroad vehicles) or the vehicle goes to the dealer (in case of the on road vehicles). The dealer actually signs a warranty booklet that comes with the vehicle so it acts as a proof that the service was done by the dealer.

This pretty much keeps people from trying to file a warranty claim for damage that they may have caused by using wrong filters, lubricants, parts, etc.

Exactly how it works with the big JD tractors. You use their filters and oils and they tell you when to change them and usually come out and do it and charge you for it.

In fact JD filters (big tractors) have chips built into the filters that gauge flow and viscosity. You must use JD filters and oils or the motors derate.

Ain't no going to TSC and buying some cheap stuff because it won't work and when you are paying a couple hundred thou for a tractor, you want it to work.

I know on my buddy's big JD's, the tractor itself notifies the dealer when service is due. All tied in with Greenstar.

Kubota has been 'tightening' their belt right along concerning improper (cheap fluid) uses and it's only getting worse.

For the little difference in cost, just not worth it in my view.

But, again, you can do whatever you want to. It's yours.

Having said that, just don't come on here belly aching if you have an issue and Kubota won't warrant it. You know the deal going in.

 

[Username Taken]

Cummins has been putting a 15 liter engine in Deere big boys for a few years now. If you got one of those, you might be on the wrong forum.

I'll bet that if you look at the Cummins manual, it is quite different than the Deere recommendations.

https://dealers.doosanportablepower.com/emea/documents/Service/02_Generators/PowerSource%20StageII/Engine%20Manuals/Cummins%20QSX15/22523849%20-%20EN.pdf

Knowing Manufacturers, it's just a revenue enhancer. Their maintenance schedule, I mean. Oh, and BTW..... Cummins makes their own oil filters. They're called 'Fleetguard'. They're pretty darn good, too. But what does Cummins know about Cummins engines, right? I've heard Baldwin is good, too.

We went round & round over this on a couple of Cummins forums. Who knows Cummins engines better, Cummins or John Deere?? Cummins or Ram?

It was about the Cummins ISB 6.7L Turbo. Most people, like me, said we were gonna follow the Ram guidelines while it was under warranty then switch to the more relaxed Cummins guidelines afterwards.

Then Ram went and started following the Cummins guidelines in 2019. Go figure.

Under warranty, I'd follow OEM guidelines regardless of how silly they are (and some really are). Afterwards, just use good judgement.

 

[5030]

Cummins, like Kubota don't make their own filters, they are made by a 3rd tier supplier to Cummins specs.

Wonder if Cummins still has their blocks cast in India?

 

[RickB]

Cummins, like Kubota don't make their own filters, they are made by a 3rd tier supplier to Cummins specs.

Wonder if Cummins still has their blocks cast in India?

Cummins Filtration is a wholly owned subsidiary of Cummins, so yes, Cummins makes its own filters as well as Fleetguard branded filters.

 

[TMGT]

Cummins, like Kubota don't make their own filters, they are made by a 3rd tier supplier to Cummins specs.

Wonder if Cummins still has their blocks cast in India?

Possible, they have operations in India, China, Brazil, Mexico etc. Most of the previous blocks were cast in Brazil or Mexico, not sure about where the new CGI blocks are made.

Wish the US would change some regulations to make foundries more profitable here.

 

[Username Taken]

Cummins, like Kubota don't make their own filters, they are made by a 3rd tier supplier to Cummins specs.

Wonder if Cummins still has their blocks cast in India?

Incorrect. Cummins owns their own filtration company and makes their own filters. It's called Fleetguard these days and I think they still make them in Indiana near their HQ, not sure on that. They're a serious company. World wide manufacturers
No clue where their blocks are cast. I know that there were some bad ones that were cast in Brazil, I think. But that was on the 5.9 IIRC years ago.

 

[Ished]

Hey just to tell everyone I was told by my dealer Kubota has a lawsuit against TSC for their oil claim as to being equal to super udt 2 because they had tractors under warranty with the tsc branded oil and the pumps were failing. Don't be cheap just buy their oil. Also to save your oil on filter changes try the old shop vac over the fill hole to create a vacuum and hold the oil in till you get filters on.

 

[rswyan]

Hey just to tell everyone I was told by my dealer Kubota has a lawsuit against TSC for their oil claim as to being equal to super udt 2 because they had tractors under warranty with the tsc branded oil and the pumps were failing. Don't be cheap just buy their oil. Also to save your oil on filter changes try the old shop vac over the fill hole to create a vacuum and hold the oil in till you get filters on.

Leaving aside the obvious fact that the dealer has his own vested interest in the matter, (in selling you a product that he carries and offers for sale ... at a significantly higher price) what he may be referring to is a couple of (?) class-action lawsuits that were brought against a number of companies (Tractor Supply among them) and at least one refiner, Citgo, over (so-called) "303 tractor hydraulic fluid":

WGBC Team Secures $19M Nationwide Class-Action Settlement

WGBC Team Obtains $1.7M Class-Action Settlement Against Tractor Supply Co.

Tractor Supply no longer sells this particular fluid, AFAIK.

Nor do they claim that their UTF is "equal to Super UDT 2" ...

 

[ljjhouser]

$264 for Kubota UDT-2 is an outrageous price. I get it in Arkansas for about $120. I have also read several warnings about NOT using Kubota UDT-2. Your tractor is a good sized investment. The temptation to use unbranded or off brand parts is a big one, especially when a filter cost $70 and there are several of them. But there is more at stake using parts - especially udt-2 (involves steering, transmission, loader, 4wd front and even it you have wet brakes).
I also do all my maintenance and am glad I can save the service cost. But I stay with Kubota parts and fluids. My tractor is smaller than yours L4701 - my manual says (as others have mentioned) - at 50 hours, change or check the filter for any metal and clean magnet ring if needed. Top off is udt if low. The UDT change is called for at 400 hours. Check your neighbors manual or ask him to call his Kobota dealer about the 50 hr service. Best wishes, Larry

 

[crashz]

There are a ton of lubricant's that meet or exceed CAT TO-2 fluid (common on a lot of older CAT transmissions). Every Tom, Dick, and Harry offers a premium diesel engine oil meeting todays API standards. But not many fluids that meet or exceed Kubota's SUDT-2 specifications. "Equal to" is just marketing gibberish. Means nothing except deception.

I'm happy to sell you a cup of coffee "equal to" Dunkin Donuts. It will be warm, brown and liquid. And in a cup!

 

[MoKelly]

What I don’t understand is why folks use the manufactures stuff under the warranty period but go to generic stuff after the warranty expires.

Either the manufacturers stuff is best for the machine or it isn’t. Who wants their equipment to break down just because it’s no longer under warranty?

MoKelly

 

[RickB]

$264 for Kubota UDT-2 is an outrageous price. I get it in Arkansas for about $120. I have also read several warnings about NOT using Kubota UDT-2. Your tractor is a good sized investment. The temptation to use unbranded or off brand parts is a big one, especially when a filter cost $70 and there are several of them. But there is more at stake using parts - especially udt-2 (involves steering, transmission, loader, 4wd front and even it you have wet brakes).
I also do all my maintenance and am glad I can save the service cost. But I stay with Kubota parts and fluids. My tractor is smaller than yours L4701 - my manual says (as others have mentioned) - at 50 hours, change or check the filter for any metal and clean magnet ring if needed. Top off is udt if low. The UDT change is called for at 400 hours. Check your neighbors manual or ask him to call his Kobota dealer about the 50 hr service. Best wishes, Larry

I could be wrong but I took the $264 figure to be the price for a sufficient quantity of SUDT2 to accomplish the drain & fill on the MX. That would be more in line with typical retail prices per gallon/pail/whatever.

 

[rswyan]

What I don’t understand is why folks use the manufactures stuff under the warranty period but go to generic stuff after the warranty expires.

That's pretty easy: they fear the manufacturer denying a claim should some failure happen within the warranty period.

Assumption being that once the warranty period is up they won't cover anything (something, to their credit, that is not always the case)

Either the manufacturers stuff is best for the machine or it isn’t. Who wants their equipment to break down just because it’s no longer under warranty?

One would assume no one.