Just another UDT oil question.

[PA-Kubota]

I'm going to help a friend do the 50hr service MX5400-HST and looks like going to need about 12gal. Beside Kubota oil, since tractor supply is close are any of their gear oil meet or exceed the Kubota spec? In my area dealer wants $264 whereas TSC is just over $100.

thanks

 

[RickB]

Don't change the hydraulic oil @ 50 hours. It's a supreme waste of $$$. Over 26 years experience at three dealers selling CaseIH, New Holland, Kubota and Mahindra. Dealerships have been around since 1963, 1970 and 2010. Not a single recommendation or work order for a hydraulic oil change at 50 hours except in rare instances with obvious contamination.

 

[rswyan]

I'm going to help a friend do the 50hr service MX5400-HST and looks like going to need about 12gal. Beside Kubota oil, since tractor supply is close are any of their gear oil meet or exceed the Kubota spec? In my area dealer wants $264 whereas TSC is just over $100.

thanks

I've been using TSC's Traveller Premium Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid in our B2910 here for quite some time.

Traveller Premium Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid

2295.5 hours on the clock so far and no issues.

 

[fried1765]

I'm going to help a friend do the 50hr service MX5400-HST and looks like going to need about 12gal. Beside Kubota oil, since tractor supply is close are any of their gear oil meet or exceed the Kubota spec? In my area dealer wants $264 whereas TSC is just over $100.

thanks

On your friend's new Kubota tractor (50 hrs.), I would not even think about anything other than Kubota SUDT-2.
The tractor is obviously still under warranty.
If there should be a warranty problem, when Kubota discovers that TSC low bidder brand oil was used, it will be curtains for that warranty.
False economy!
In the grand scheme of things, Kubota SUDT-2 can be very cheap!

 

[Captain Dirty]

Check the owner's manual. I believe you will find the first 50-hr service calls for change of the filters. The 400 hr service calls for the oil change. https://kubota.ca/getmedia/af14cebf...00,-MX5200,-MX5800-OPS-EN-TC65019712?ext=.pdf

Even at 400 hrs an analysis may save the change and $$$. See my post Oil & Fuel - Kubota L45 hydraulic fluid maintenance

 

[rswyan]

On your friend's new Kubota tractor (50 hrs.), I would not even think about anything other than Kubota UDT-2.
The tractor is obviously still under warranty.
If there should be a warranty problem, when Kubota discovers that TSC low bidder brand oil was used, it will be curtains for that warranty.

Doubtful.

Were Kubota to do that (require Kubota branded UDT or SUDT), they would be in violation of US Federal Law: 15 U.S. Code § 2302(c) specifically - the particular provision of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits the requirement a "supplier" (aka Kubota) of using "tie-in" products to maintain a warranty of a consumer product:

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act

The only way they could get away with doing so is if they were willing to provide the UDT ... FOR FREE ... at no cost to the consumer.

But if they are willing to do that, I'd certainly be happy to take them up on the offer ...

 

[Captain Dirty]

As skeptic if not a cynic I believe the "suppliers" skirt Magnuson-Moss by stating any "tie-in" products are OK as long as they meet the "supplier's" specifications. If the tie-in product's manufacturer or marketer claims "Meets all tractor manufacturer's requirements" the "supplier" will try to put the onus on the tie-in. How much justice can you afford?

As a practical matter, most consumers rationalize using the "supplier's" products at least for the duration of the warranty period.

 

[rswyan]

"Tie-in" products refers to products being sold/supplied by the original supplier of the item under warranty.

In this case, that would be Kubota.

 

[Captain Dirty]

My misunderstanding, I thought the "tie in" products were substitutes from other manufacturers. e.g. Fram filters, TSC fluids, etc. So "For best results use only genuine ______ tie-in products or parts"?

 

[rswyan]

My misunderstanding, I thought the "tie in" products were substitutes from other manufacturers. e.g. Fram filters, TSC fluids, etc. So "For best results use only genuine ______ tie-in products or parts"?

In this case, if you put Kubota into the blank above, then yes: that could be a statement that a manufacturer (Kubota here) might well make. And, in fact, many probably do.

However, if they attempted to deny warranty coverage on a legitimate claim - simply because the end user used a compatible part or consumable (fluid, grease, etc.) - then they would be violating Magnuson-Moss and Federal Law.

 

[RickB]

In this case, if you put Kubota into the blank above, then yes: that could be a statement that a manufacturer (Kubota here) might well make. And, in fact, many probably do.

However, if they attempted to deny warranty coverage on a legitimate claim - simply because the end user used a compatible part or consumable (fluid, grease, etc.) - then they would be violating Magnuson-Moss and Federal Law.

Please define "compatible part or consumable". My definitions does not include filters with different micron ratings or flow rates. Or fluids with different viscosities, base stocks or additive packages. Do yours? Do you own any machines with a factory warranty?

 

[mcfarmall]

Anybody here have any documented case(s) of warranty denial due to the use of "compatible parts or consumables"?

 

[fried1765]

Anybody here have any documented case(s) of warranty denial due to the use of "compatible parts or consumables"?

On a $25,000 + tractor, I would not want to be the one to test the Kubota water on such a warranty issue.

 

[rswyan]

Please define "compatible part or consumable".

One which is designed to provide and perform the same (or better) functionality as the original part or consumable.

IOW: the part needs to meet or exceed the manufacturer's spec for functionality for that particular part.

My definitions does not include filters with different micron ratings or flow rates. Or fluids with different viscosities, base stocks or additive packages. Do yours?

Not necessarily ... but they conceivably might.

You see any issue with a filter providing better filtration ... assuming it provides adequate flow ? (meets or exceeds manufacturer's spec)

What about if an add package of a third party product provides better protection ?

Would that be an issue ?

Do you own any machines with a factory warranty?

Funny you should ask ...

But yeah - as of about an hour ago - sure do:

Look, I appreciate that manufacturers and their dealers can be in a tough spot regarding warranties - given that the equipment is out of their control and subject to potential abuse by consumers - who could potentially make a claim on something that occurred as a consequence of said consumers ignorance, stupidity, or outright abuse.

But OTOH, the reason why the Magnuson-Moss Act even exists is because at least some companies (historically) do not have entirely clean hands either.

 

[5030]

Kubota has become very touchy' about warranty related issues that involve lubricant related failures, so why cheap out. Makes no sense to me. JD is the same way now. Especially true with HST's.

 

[Username Taken]

Kubota isn't looking for a fight with their customers. They just want you to use due care when performing routine maintenance on the machines.

While it's under warranty, I always follow OEM guidelines. Afterwards, I use common sense. I'm not looking for a fight either. Keep receipts. Sometimes you run into a Service Mgr that thinks he's a TV prosecutor when you need work done under warranty

 

[Ford850]

50 hour service is as easy as a filter change and topping off with a little OEM fluid. No sense making it more difficult than that.

 

[Fallon]

It's easy to meet OEM specs for engine oil. It just needs to comply with the current CK4 standard & be the appropriate weight for your climate & season. Previous to 2017 it was CJ4. Nice industry standard for engine oils for all manufacturers. Absolutely no problems in using any other CK4 oil over Kubota CK4 oil.

Kubota Excavators spec one of a couple different ISO oils. Again, a nice industry standard that lots of suppliers blend to.

Unfortunately it's less clear on the hydraulic oil front for tractors. They spec UDT or SUDT2. Which is a Kubota spec, not an industry spec. I'm not clear if that is a published spec & have never seen any other oil as meeting the SUDT2 standards. Some advertise "compatible", but that gets fuzzy. Definite room to fight it under the warranty act noted above. But personally I have no desire to fight that fight for what amounts to well under $100 a year.

Kubota | Lubricant & Grease Maintenance Schedule

Browse our Oil and Grease Maintenance guide for equipment lubrication involving grease and oil for Kubota's products. Learn more with Kubota service support.

www.kubotausa.com

 

[Chewwy]

In this case, if you put Kubota into the blank above, then yes: that could be a statement that a manufacturer (Kubota here) might well make. And, in fact, many probably do.

However, if they attempted to deny warranty coverage on a legitimate claim - simply because the end user used a compatible part or consumable (fluid, grease, etc.) - then they would be violating Magnuson-Moss and Federal Law.

Just to further cloud the issue . .

The Magnuson-Moss Act is only applicable to “consumer products.” The act states “The term “consumer product” means any tangible personal property which is distributed in commerce and which is normally used for personal, family, or household purposes (including any such property intended to be attached to or installed in any real property without regard to whether it is so attached or installed).”

Agricultural products such as farm machinery, structures and implements used in the business or occupation of farming are not covered by the Act where their personal, family, or household use is uncommon. However, those agricultural products normally used for personal or household gardening (for example, to produce goods for personal consumption, and not for resale) are consumer products under the Act.

 

[mcfarmall]

On a $25,000 + tractor, I would not want to be the one to test the Kubota water on such a warranty issue.

Certainly there must be one poor soul on TBN that rolled the dice and had his tractor destroyed by using non Kubota consumables.

I'm not trying to be belligerent, I simply want to put some real world metrics behind the fear of not using OEM fluids in stuff whether it be your car, boat, truck, tractor, etc.. Thus far, if you leave your emotions behind and consider the facts that are presented, there is little evidence that non-OEM fluids create the disaster that is so popularly touted.