Best way of Getting an HST tractor out of 4x4 when it seems to be stuck?

[Porchfan]

So I have two tractors, a B2650 and a Bx2380. Both are HST and are used regularly in and out of 4 wheel drive. I have always had a hard time getting the BX out of 4x4 mode until yesterday. Never with the B2650. Yesterday, I was really struggling getting the BX out of 4x4. Not sure why this time was really bad. What I would usually do is move the tractor back and forth until I could jam the lever out of 4x4. Sometimes it would
make a banging noise when I succeeded. Other times
It would be a little tough and no noise. I’ve tried reverse, neutral, the brake, steering wheel
Positions, being on a hill going down, or go up and still no consensus on the best way to do this.
I had just got on my concrete driveway and that usually is always worse. Yesterday it was just stuck big time and so was I.

Sitting there for about 10 minutes it dawned on me that the hydrostatic torque on the front wheels could be the reason why it is so hard to move out of 4x4. I then thought if I could lift the wheels up, that torque would reduce enough or go away and I’d be able to get it out of 4x4.
So - I tried it using the FEL and bucket and BINGO! After lifting the front wheels off the ground, the lever to move out of 4x4 was never easier to move. I could move it with my bad pinky. Ok. So now I have a way if I have the FEL on the tractor. Problem is I use this tractor to mow the yard and rarely have the FEL attached when mowing. I also have to put it in 4x4 in a couple spots when mowing in the yard so the rear wheel don’t spin and tear the yard up.

Ugh.

Curious if any of you all have had this issue and have done what I did or something else that gets you out of 4x4? What’s the best way to get out of 4x4 when you don’t have the FEL on? Also interested in understanding why I’ve never had an issue with my B2650 going to 2 wheel from 4 wheel drive? Maybe I need to read the manual? I’ve only had the Bx for 5 months. Haha. Fire away folks.
Thanks -

 

[jeff9366]

Sitting there it dawned on me that the hydrostatic torque on the front wheels could be the reason why it is so hard to move out of 4x4.

Move a few inches slowly in REVERSE to release torque on the front wheels.

 

[ptsg]

Using the FEL to lift the front wheels is a good trick, when you have the FEL on as you mentioned.

What I do most of the times is just switching between back and forth while applying gentle pressure on the 4WD lever.

Lets say I was moving forward and wanted to disengage the 4WD. I just stop, put it into reverse, then let it go backwards while applying gentle pressure on the lever. Once all the tension is good, it'll pop right off. It usually takes a good foot or two.

The same goes if you're going backwards and want to disengage the 4WD. Just go forwards while applying gentle pressure to the lever.

This applies to all tractors with mechanical actuated 4WD. Once you get used to it, you'll find it very easy to go in and out of 4WD.

It's not good to force the lever in and out of gear. If it's not going out, it's because there is too much tension on the driveline. If it's not going into 4wd, it's because the teeth or splines are not fully aligned. It's easy to bent or break the forks inside the transmission which causes an expensive repair.

 

[tradosaurus]

I never take mine out of 4wd.

 

[crazyal]

In a car/ truck the gearing and tire size is the same so it's easier than a tractor. Because of the different size tires between front and back the gearing must also be different. It's pretty much impossible to get the gearing in the differentials to be exact to match the different size tires so they just get it close. If one tractor is easier it most likely is because the tires and gears are a closer match between front and back. Tricks that can help are, like others said, reversing. Your idea of lifting the front axle off the ground is also a good way. Experiment with going straight vs turning as you reverse since turning changes the speed at which the front wheels turn.

 

[thclimer]

I have never had the FEL trick fail me when gentle pressure on the lever to remove from 4-wheel drive doesn't work. As others have said move forward or reverse while turning left to right is another option, it just doesn't work 100% of the time for me or if I'm on the lawn doing the forward or reverse can tear up the grass.

 

[rScotty]

If lifting the front axle helps to shift out of 4wd, you have "wind up" torque on the front driveshaft and also on the transmission shafts. It's as simple as that.

The wind up comes from having a front to rear tire rolling circumference that doesn't match the internal gearing quite right. Some of that is normal because all manufacturers make the front axle to be a slightly higher ratio so that you will always have steering with the front wheels instead of pushing the front end to the side with the rears. You can't change the internal ratio. But some of the mismatch it is due to the tires and made worse by high traction surfaces (asphalt) or lots of load in the FEL.

Most of the time the mismatch in front to rear tire ratio got that way by not taking the front-to-rear rolling circumference of the tires into account when changing to a different size tire or tread.

If it is real hard to shift out of 4wd, you are shortening the life of the front drive shaft U joints.... but it's anyone's guess as to how much or whether it is ever going to be a problem. You'll know it is a problem if it starts making a popping sound in 4WD. If caught in time, it's not a major repair.

Best mechanical practice is to only use 4wd when you have a need for it.
Good Luck,
rScotty

 

[oosik]

I seldom need/use 4WD. But when I do it goes in/out quite easily and with a solid - "thunk". I would check the inflation pressure of both front tires. They should be, basically, the same pressure and within the limits recommended on the tire or in your tractor op manual.

 

[Thomas]

Tractor on somewhat level ground easier to release 4wd....also use the bucket trick. :thumbsup:

 

[RjCorazza]

My experience is similar to other posts. I've never had to resort to raising the front though. I generally slowly move forward while applying light pressure to the 4wd lever, and never engage or disengage on pavement.

 

[ericm979]

Drivetrain wind-up is normal. Manufacturers always spec the front axle to turn a little faster than the rear. Otherwise the front axle would be too slow when turning and the front wheels are taking a longer path than the rears. Having the fronts turn too slow in a turn makes the front end push wide instead of steering. The slight overdrive is why you're not supposed to use 4wd on high traction surfaces like pavement. It'll stress the driveline and wear the tires.

How hard it is to shift out of 4wd depends on the clearances of the gears and shifter design. My Branson can be balky about shifting out of out of 4wd. Usually I can get it to shift out after backing up some. If not, the loader trick works. I go in and out of 4wd often since so many tasks involve both steep hills and crossing pavement. As the hours accumulate and the parts break in, it's getting easier. Changing to a semi synthetic trans oil helped some.

 

[bcp]

It will happen even if the gearing, inflation, and tire sizes are perfectly matched. This is caused by the front wheels traveling farther when you turn.

Bruce

 

[rademamj1]

I have never removed my FEL and use the 4x4 about 80% of the time. When I do take it out of 4x4, backing up about a couple of feet makes it all effortless.

 

[Cycledude]

I bought a used Ford F-150 4x4 and the only way to get it out of 4x4 was to stop and backup a couple feet, it took awhile to figure out but when the previous owner had put new tires on they put the correct tires on the front but put one size bigger on the rear and that is what caused the trouble. I wound up putting 4 new tires on all the same size and the problem completely disappeared. So you should probably take a close look to make sure you have the correct size tires on all 4 wheels.

 

[ning]

My tractor's 4wd gets really tight if I'm on pavement (not surprising) and it will be snug if I've just made a turn even on soft stuff.

Assuming you're on grass or dirt, I'd try straightening the wheel, go a bit forward, then a little reverse, bounce a bit like that while applying pressure on the lever.

 

[Porchfan]

I bought a used Ford F-150 4x4 and the only way to get it out of 4x4 was to stop and backup a couple feet, it took awhile to figure out but when the previous owner had put new tires on they put the correct tires on the front but put one size bigger on the rear and that is what caused the trouble. I wound up putting 4 new tires on all the same size and the problem completely disappeared. So you should probably take a close look to make sure you have the correct size tires on all 4 wheels.

Tractor was bought new at a dealer with turf tires. As far as I know, the tires are correct. They are inflated properly too. I have about 60 hrs on it now. I don’t put it in 4x4 much so I suspect being new and not used
Much means the system of gears axles, U- joints and other mechanical stuff hasn’t worn much. It’s just been more
Difficult
To get out of 4x4 than my bigger B2650. Like I said originally, the bigger tractor has never been hard to get out of 4x4. It’s got 1200+ hours on it and I use it a lot in 4x4. That said tho, i recall it never was hard to disengage 4x4 even when new
When I bought it 7 years ago.

 

[Porchfan]

My experience is similar to other posts. I've never had to resort to raising the front though. I generally slowly move forward while applying light pressure to the 4wd lever, and never engage or disengage on pavement.

I’ll have to try to remember to be on soft ground or my gravel road to disengage instead of the pavement. I usually Remember to disengage only after I’m already on pavement. My bad. There are parts of our back road that are steep and when on gravel, I’ll slip without 4x4 so I keep it on until I get up on the side driveway I have. I’ll have to stop just before the driveway where it is a little flatter and try it there. Thanks.

 

[ning]

I’ll have to try to remember to be on soft ground or my I’ll slip without 4x4 so I keep it on until I get up on the side driveway I have. I’ll have to stop just before the driveway where it is a little flatter and try it there.

Just switch as soon as you have good traction, whether that's a good gravel road or actual pavement - you shouldn't get bind-up from the first couple feet that all 4 tires are on pavement.

 

[John_Mc]

I値l have to try to remember to be on soft ground or my gravel road to disengage instead of the pavement. I usually Remember to disengage only after I知 already on pavement. My bad. There are parts of our back road that are steep and when on gravel, I値l slip without 4x4 so I keep it on until I get up on the side driveway I have. I値l have to stop just before the driveway where it is a little flatter and try it there. Thanks.

The reason soft ground is easier is because the wheels can break traction and slip as needed, rather than continuing to "wind up" the drive train. As others have already noted, Tractors are designed NOT to turn the front wheels at the same speed as the rears. They are supposed to go just a few percent faster in high-traction situations, this will wind up the drive train, binding the gears up under tension. It may be different from one model of tractor to another. It will also be noticeably different from one tread design to another - Turf tires usually have very good traction on pavement, which can make the problem worse. Ag tires tend to have less traction on pavement (less rubber on the road), though they can still experience the problem.

What works for me is as others have noted: If I've been driving forward, I'll reverse for a bit sometimes just a little bit is enough to release the 4WD shift lever, some times I have to back up 5 or 6 feet or more. If my last move was backing up for a significant distance, I'll try rolling forward. I do any of this maneuvering in a straight line - it's just one less variable to worry about.

 

[Porchfan]

So. I discovered today an easy way to get it out of 4x4. When backing up or going forward after stopping, when you hit the HST pedal, pop the pedal hard as you’re pulling back on the 4x4 lever. If it still doesn’t go out of 4x4, pop the HST pedal in the opposite direction and pull the lever at the same time The key is to hit the pedal hard so the tractor jumps a bit. That has done the trick today for me about 6 times. No fail. All on concrete. Now no need for the loader to be on.
Cheers
Porch