Just discovered Power Trac and have a couple questions

[GregS]

Every Spring I start looking at tractors and COVID-19 hasn't changed that. I was briefly looking at the tractors available and looked at some info about Steiner and Ventrac tractors. In looking there, I stumbled upon Power Trac. Eventually I'll make a tractor purchase, but the prices are the hard sell for convincing my wife of the need.

About 3 years ago, my zero turn went bad. I was 1 signature away from a John Deere 1025R, but since I was shopping for a mower, I couldn't get past the idea that I was buying a $20k lawn mower. Of course it would have been a lot more than that, but that was stuck in my head.

I have a bit over 2.5 acres. All of it requires mowing. I'm not sure of the slope of the hill I'm on, I'd guess 10-15%. The driveway is 100' inside the fence, then the shared driveway is roughly 500', my neighbor plows it now. If I bought a PT, I'd get both buckets, the forks, a snow blade or snow thrower and probably a tiller. I'd do some snow plowing and typical landscaping. But the vast majority of it would be mowing. I'm currently using a Craftsman garden tractor with a 54" deck. I see that the pt180 and pt422 both list a 48" mowing deck. Currently it takes about 2.5-3 hours to mow. All the videos I see of the pt180 and pt422 mowing are showing the maneuverability of the tractor. But if I'm decreasing the size of my mower deck, I certainly can't decrease the speed that I can mow. So what kind of speed can one of the "home owner" models mow?

Also, is the $2500 difference in price between the pt180 and pt422 worth it? I see there's just a couple of pt180 owners on the board, I'm wondering if those owners regret not moving up in size to the pt422. I can't justify the extra $4200 price between the pt422 and pt425, so that's not an option.

Thanks for any information.

 

[MossRoad]

If your main task is mowing, and only mowing, you'd be better off with a dedicated mower.

You can get a 50" 24hp Cub Cadet for $1999 or a 48" 22hp John Deer for $2099 at Home Depot. Either will last 10 years.

You can get a 42" snow blower for the Cub for $1400.

So for about $3500 that covers your mowing and snow blowing needs.

Now let's compare the 180 mower with the 422 mower.

180 - 45" single blade, $950
422 - 48" three blade, $1400

A single blade that wide is gonna cause scalping and is easier to damage VS a 3 blade with much shorter blades. Look at replacement costs of the blades as well as availability.

3" difference in width isn't gonna be that much on 2 acres.

What's wrong with the current 54" mower you're using?

 

[MossRoad]

Forgot, welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

 

[GregS]

Forgot, welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

Yeah, I saw that this is my "first" post. But I joined back in 2016. I thought for sure that I had posted back then, that's when I was looking at that JD.

You can get a 42" snow blower for the Cub for $1400.

What's wrong with the current 54" mower you're using?

Yeah, I don't want to do about 600' of snow blowing with a 42" snow blower. It would be fine for inside my fence line, but my neighbor is getting older and won't be plowing that 500' forever.

Nothing currently wrong with the mower and it's been doing great. But I don't want to get in the same situation as I was 3 or 4 years ago where I'm shopping for a $20k mower again.

If I'm going to go with a tractor, I want to make sure I'm not going to need to upgrade in a year or 2. I tend to over research everything prior to buying anything.

While the majority of the time will be for mowing, it would be used for a bunch more stuff. Lots of land scaping stuff, lots of hauling downed wood. I forgot that I'm going to be working on clearing the tree line, so I'd add a stump grinder to that list as well.

Over the past couple of weeks, I've come to the conclusion that like my neighbor, I'm getting older too. My back doesn't like me the next day when I do what needs done.


P.S. checked out your PT425 page. good stuff.

 

[MossRoad]

For stump grinding and mowing, I'd get the highest HP unit you can afford.

When I was shopping, I wanted the 60" mower. PT stressed that they' would not recommend the 422 with the 60" mower. It needs the HP to spin the blades and keep them spinning. They'd only recommend the 48" mower with the 422. They also said the brush cutter would work a lot better with the 425 as well, VS the 422, and like the mowers, the 180 gets a 45" brush cutter.

However, if you look at the PT specs, it shows the 180 and 422 both having 8GPM, but the 180 is listed at 2500PSI and the 422 is listed at 2000PSI. I'd want to talk to Terry at PT and ask why?

 

[MossRoad]

...Over the past couple of weeks, I've come to the conclusion that like my neighbor, I'm getting older too. My back doesn't like me the next day when I do what needs done.

...

While it's nice to have the PT do do the heavy lifting, I'm still reasonably healthy at 59. I had lots of back trouble as a kid and have done lots of physical therapy over the decades. I'm pretty good about doing my back exercises and doing my proper lifting techniques. I did about 50 bags of 60# cement in 2 hours this weekend on my garage addition project. I threw them in the PT bucket, and used the PT to get them to my mixer height. So I didn't have to bend with them too much, only at the trailer loading them. I did shovel out the mixer into the holes. I really thought I'd be sore the next day, but nothing. Felt good. :thumbsup:

These little PT's are super handy around the home, landscaping chores, mulch, rock, mowing, brush cutting, snow removal, etc... small enough to fit through gates, or back up into a full-size pickup bed between the wheel wells with an implement for travel. I'm still super happy with my purchase 19.5 years ago. :thumbsup:

 

[GregS]

I just wish that I could get it across to the wife that a lot more would get done if I didn't have to do everything by hand. It's not like I get much help with any of it. The big issue is that she works around the house and doesn't get to other parts of the yard. She does not see what needs done.

And of course when she does see it, she says something along the lines of "we need to do..." I know that we = me

 

[GregS]

I like the idea of the 425, but I balk at the price. It's $13,200 + the bucket. I know that I can get the Massey Ferguson 1526 with a higher lift height and weight for $16,900, plus it's a diesel. With the MF, I'm not tied to the PT implements, it works with any of the right sized 3-point attachments. I really worry about being tied to just the implements that Power-Trac makes.

I know that with the PT, it would fit my property better. It would fit through the 56" gate to the garden easily. The articulated steering would make it much easier to get into the various nooks and crannies of my property. Especially into the corners of the vegetable garden and around the carport.

 

[Marks481]

is the $2500 difference in price between the pt180 and pt422 worth it?

Absolutely. You will be disappointed in the mowing performance of the PT180. And there is a significant difference in other capabilities (such as lift capacity and height).

And if you need to do rough field mowing, the PT422 will barely cut it.

In terms of speed, unless you are on slopes, the PT isn't going to come close to matching the speed (and cut quality) of a zero turn mower. The PT is a swiss army knife. It does a lot of the things, just not all of them well.

she says something along the lines of "we need to do..." I know that we = me

Reminds me when I bought this house in WA while we lived in VA. I told my wife that I would fly out and spent a week Waiting the inside before we moved in (airless sprayer + empty house = quick work). "No, I want to help" she said. I should have realized that her version of "help" was picking out the color card at Lowes. Which she could have done back in VA. So I ended up painting one room at a time after we moved, and shuffling furniture around, each time.

 

[MossRoad]

Careful what you wish for. I've told this story many times.

Convinced the wife we needed the PT425 and a trailer. So we went to the credit union. Sat down with the loan officer about a home equity loan line of credit. Loan officer asks how much we need. I look at my wife and say something like, well, the tractor is X$, the implements are X$, the trailer will be X$, so I guess we need to borrow about $14,000 (this is 2001). She says OK, turns to the loan officer and says we need to borrow $28,000 because we're getting her a new car, too.

I got my tractor, she got her car. :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

Well, the PT180 is $361 per HP and the 422 is $409 per HP, and the 425 is $528 per HP.

 

[MossRoad]

Here's a post I made back in 2001 where I justified the cost of the 425 to myself...

Re: Power Trac PT425 Quick Change Challenge
The 418 and 422 use Robbins engines and have 18 and 22 HP respectively. The 425 uses the Kohler Command 25HP engine.

The 418 does not have a hydraulic oil cooler and fan, the 422 and 425 do.

The 418 and 422 do not come standard with ROPS. The 425 does.

Price difference:
$6000.00 for PT418
$7000.00 for PT422, 4 more HP and hydraulic oil cooler.
$8000.00 for PT425, 7 more HP, Kohler Engine and hydraulic oil cooler ROPS and canopy.

Every one that I talked to are happy with the Robbins engine except one landscaper, who said that his 18HP died at 300 hours. Did not tell me why it died. I've always been partial to Kohler and there are several good places around here to get them serviced under warranty if needed. I looked at it this way. The gain in HP between the 18 and 25HP units is over 33%. The price difference is also a gain of 33%. So I am paying the exact same amount for each HP and I get the ROPS, canopy and hydraulic oil cooler free!( is this great math or what?)

 

[MossRoad]

I bumped a 13 year old thread up on the 422 VS the 425. There's some good discussion in there for you, and they talk about the 418 as well (discontinued and now there's a 180, but the subject matter is still relevant).

 

[m5040]

I own a PT180 and PT1430. I got the 180 because it did what I needed to do for the best price. The major differences between 180-422 that will most affect you are the 422 has a aux hyd circut and oil cooler (I added a oil cooler to my 180 for cheap$ and will probably add a aux hyd circuit in the future). I would rent a stump grinder, but if you really want to buy one, I would think the tractor working it's hardest and standing still cutting a stump would definitely need a cooler!
Without the aux hyd you can't work attachments like grapples, angle snow plows-blow chutes, mini front hoe, tree pullers and shears etc. This alone is kind of a big deal if it is going to be your only tractor and you want to do everything with it.
Some people make adapters to use skid steer attachments (that size would be Dingo type), this opens the choices of all the things you can do.

The only reason I bought my 180 was to do a LOT of brush hog type work in tight spaces with hours of back and forth. My Steiner 430MAX really sucked at it for the price as it couldn't do rough terrain and the attachment only goes up about a foot, I needed to cut around rocks that were higher then that. (The PTs can raise up 4+' and lower down on brush that can't be pushed over).
The PT design for mowing AND rough brush cutting is the best made, bar none.
The 180s job was brush mowing and afterward it could help out around the farm with the large material bucket and fork attachment. It was so comfortable to use, easy on and off, great visibility of the attachment (I can see the bucket cutting edge from the seat to get under rocks etc, no guesswork it you loaded the bucket) that I bought my 2nd PT (1430).
The 422 and up can do more for the above reasons, so that is a good reason to spend the extra $ (unless you have mechanical ability and can modify yourself, then its the HP and lift cap).
Good luck

 

[agjones]

Here's a post I made back in 2001 where I justified the cost of the 425 to myself...

I'm dying to know what you decided? ;-)

 

[MossRoad]

:laughing:

 

[GregS]

Absolutely. You will be disappointed in the mowing performance of the PT180. And there is a significant difference in other capabilities (such as lift capacity and height).

And if you need to do rough field mowing, the PT422 will barely cut it.

In terms of speed, unless you are on slopes, the PT isn't going to come close to matching the speed (and cut quality) of a zero turn mower. The PT is a swiss army knife. It does a lot of the things, just not all of them well.

I had a zero turn, and blew out one of the transmissions after about 5 years. It would have been $1600 to replace, so I ended up getting the garden tractor. That was my first zero turn, and because I felt it left me down, I won't be getting another. I know it could have been a fluke, but I felt that an expensive zero turn should have lasted me longer than 5 years.

No rough field mowing, I do let the bottom half get longer than inside the fence line, but it's certainly not pasture length.

My guess is that while the PT180 does the job, it's main job is to get people in the door so they can be up sold to the 422 or higher.

I got my tractor, she got her car. :laughing:

Nice.
And dang, I just noticed your post count. Wow, when do you have time to use your tractor???

Ok, it's obvious that most people feel that the pt180 won't cut it for a main tractor. I'll knock that out of my list.

I know I'd consider it a tractor, but in the strictest sense of things, would the PT be considered a tractor? Or is it a mini loader?

 

[MossRoad]

More like a tool platform.

 

[GregS]

BTW, the price difference is WAY more than it was when you did your justification. The 425 is now more than 2x the price of the 180. HP has remained the same. Would you have made the same decision today based on today's numbers?

 

[MossRoad]

It excels at things like loader work, forklift, snow plowing, mowing, brush clearing, post hole digging, etc.... where a traditional tractor excels at things like pulling. Dirt plow, box blade with rippers, etc...

One of the main reasons for that is gearing. A traditional tractor has low-med-hi ranges ( some only have low-hi), and can gear down to pull better. The PT has only one range, which is geared toward the loader-type work. It'll run circles around a traditional tractor of the same weight in those tasks, but bury a plow or rippers in the dirt and it stops, while the traditional tractor will pull it right along.

I find that I don't need to do pulling tasks very often. Therefore, the articulated one-range loader works better for me than my traditional tractor did.

I mow my 1 acre of grass weekly. Haul mulch in the spring. Firewood whenever I get a chance. Plow the driveway if it snows. Brush cut a couple miles of trails on our remote property a few times a year. Stuff like that.

Every so often a larger project comes up, like my current garage addition, so I used it to excavate the new pad area and haul the spoils across the yard to the woods, then used it to bring in 8 tons of limestone off of my trailer for a base. Friday I used it to haul 12 bags of cement at a time to my mixer to do the footing piers. Very handy.

I used to maintain a little league park. We had 3 diamonds and used it to build a 4th. Hauled 60 tons of moon dust around the park. Maintained a 5th diamond at my wife's church. Brush cut friend's properties in exchange for cold beverages.

It's just a darn handy tool.

The quick attach is what makes it so handy, and is why I take a lot of implements when I go to our remote property. I may be brush cutting a trail and come across a fallen tree, so I'll whip back over to the trailer, drop the cutter, pick up the forks and chainsaw, run back and remove the blockage, run back and get the brush cutter and continue. Then I might pop on a bucket and bring some of the wood up closer, or level out the dirt mounds where the county dredges the ditch every few years.

You can change a non-powered implement from one to the other and be on your way in 15 seconds without getting off the seat. Powered implements requires a set of the hand brake, three steps to the front, swap a couple hose quick connects, and your off, so add another 30 seconds for those.

Just a real pleasure to use the thing and all of the implements as often as I choose to change them. I used to dread changing 3pt implements, and no way would I do it multiple times per hour. With a conventional tractor, you kind of have to plan out your tasks more thoroughly to avoid implement changes. If I ever would for some reason get another conventional tractor, I'd be sure to get a skid steer quick attach system for the loader and some easy change hitch on the rear.