Twine versus net for rounds

[LouNY]

I guess horse owners come in all flavors. Around here they have a reputation for being fussy about what they feed their horses.

From what I have seen most of them talk all fussy but have very little actual knowledge of what to look for in hay quality, nutrition or digestibility.

 

[5030]

From what I have seen most of them talk all fussy but have very little actual knowledge of what to look for in hay quality, nutrition or digestibility.

+1 on that. If it's real green and heavy (bale) they think it's prime quality forage. Never met a horse owner that really knew crap about nutritional quality. In fact I used to run a forage analysis but quit. Was a waste of time for me and money.

If I was supplying forage t Derby horses I could see it. I'm not. All my hay now goes to feeding bucking bulls and steers and they will eat just about anything except bull thistle.

 

[5030]

I don't cater to the know it all horse owners. I got tired of hearing how this type hay or that type hay could make a horse colic when in reality any type hay or any other feed a horse consumes plus many other factors can cause a horse to colic. I've been told more than once that Johnson Grass hay will cause a horse to get diabetes when back when I owned horses for over 40 yrs a vet told me to feed one horse I owned strictly JG hay so she wouldn't get constipated.

The wife had 11 at one time, now down to one ancient Standard Bred and when she expires, no more. A horse is like a boat. A boat is a hole in the water you throw money in. A horse is a hole in the barn you throw money in....

if a horse isn't being worked, they don't need high quality alfalfa hay. Never have.

 

[atsah]

Horses are like throwing money in a hole unless they are used or are valuable and you buy and sell them, horses hanging around in a barn just for someone to be able they say they own horses is doing the animal a disservice..

We had many horses growing up, mostly work horses that my dad worked several times a week, if one of us wanted a saddle horse and didn't use it enough to my dad's liking, we would have come home soon thereafter and found an empty stall..

 

[5030]

I don't cater to the know it all horse owners. I got tired of hearing how this type hay or that type hay could make a horse colic when in reality any type hay or any other feed a horse consumes plus many other factors can cause a horse to colic. I've been told more than once that Johnson Grass hay will cause a horse to get diabetes when back when I owned horses for over 40 yrs a vet told me to feed one horse I owned strictly JG hay so she wouldn't get constipated.

Reminds me of a well worn Amish joke....

What do you call an Amish lad on the side of the road with his arm up a horse's butt? A mechanic....

 

[5030]

Most hay is stored outside here. 99% is net wrapped. Noticeable production difference at the end of the day.

So, if doing custom baling you'd hafta compare the cost to production loss. Might not be as much difference as it appears?

One thing I did find pout and that was, this year I bought 2 of the New Holland Mega balls of twine and those 2 balls have run all year. 29 bucks x 2 is a lot cheaper than 30 bucks for 52 over the edge net wrap. Nice thing is, my customer don't care. he keeps everything inside anyway. I will admit that net is easier for me to handle in the field loading trailers and sequestering bales for loading but the twine is certainly less expensive.

 

[HayDR]

Net is cheaper if you are baling 100 bales or more a day, because of the time saving & fuel saving. In the center of the USA is a section from the Ohio River down to the TN/Alabama Border that runs from the 4 state area to eastern VA/NC and its call the freeze thaw feeding area. What this means the ground is frozen in the mornings and mud the rest of the day. 80% of the hay in this area is stored outside so net freezes to the bale and is a mess to deal with. Polly & Sisal twine are used on 80% of 4' wide balers for this area. The 5' wide balers are usually a larger farmer and 50% of this hay gets net. Its all about the guy feeding the hay to their cattle & their climate. You go above this area or below this area, this 70-90% of balers will be net capable.

 

[5030]

Net is cheaper if you are baling 100 bales or more a day, because of the time saving & fuel saving. In the center of the USA is a section from the Ohio River down to the TN/Alabama Border that runs from the 4 state area to eastern VA/NC and its call the freeze thaw feeding area. What this means the ground is frozen in the mornings and mud the rest of the day. 80% of the hay in this area is stored outside so net freezes to the bale and is a mess to deal with. Polly & Sisal twine are used on 80% of 4' wide balers for this area. The 5' wide balers are usually a larger farmer and 50% of this hay gets net. Its all about the guy feeding the hay to their cattle & their climate. You go above this area or below this area, this 70-90% of balers will be net capable.

I disagree with your premise that net is cheaper if running 100+ bales a day. It has nothing to do with bale quantity and more to do with how many feet there are on a roll and bale diameter, same with twine. I can run either so I've pencilled it out both ways and twine always come out on top. has zilch to do with quantity run. I guess of your prime mover sucks diesel like a drunken sailor, maybe it might be a wash but will never be even.

5 foot wide RB's are rare because of the transportation issue concerning bales. You typically haul bales eye to the side and 10 feet across (2 side by side) is illegal on any public road without a permit. I know someone with a 5 footer and he got busted last year and paid a hefty fine for his stupidity. Just because you farm to make breaking the laws ok.

 

[ovrszd]

I think things vary by location. No 4ft bales here. Very little twine.

I agree with haydr's volume point.

5030, how many bales do you roll per year?

 

[RickB]

Net wrap economics are absolutely volume based, and a function of the value of time, not the material itself.
Feeding frozen, ice covered net bales is greatly simplified by raising them to the top of a loaders lift range and dropping them.

 

[ovrszd]

In the beginning net wrap was touted as sheltering the bale better from weather. I can't testify to that.

 

[LouNY]

In many cases it is a matter of personal preference.
That said wrapped baleage (silage bales) are better off in netwrap.
Dry bales stored inside twine is fine.
Bales stored out in the weather;
in this area you will have a lot of loss, it's not unusual to see a 30% loss,
with netwrap it may be a bit less.

 

[Tx Jim]

Lou
What type of hay is in rd bales that have 30% spoilage? Do you stack rows with 3 or more ft between rows??? The rd bales I store outside over the Winter that have netwrap have a lot less spoilage than twine wrapped bales. I doubt if I have 5% spoilage during storage

 

[LouNY]

Doesn't matter what kind of hay it is.
That is why I said in my area.
We normally get some rain every week, as well as heavy dews.
Then add in several inches or a few feet of snow melt soaking into a bale outside,
in just a few years its pile of compost with string or wrap init.
It's not like Texas where the east is wet and from the central on out west gets dryer and dryer till it's desert.
Heck, I'd swear that in West Texas you could get dust in a sealed mason jar.
I lived in Seminole and Fort Stockton for several years.

The following chart is a bit hard to read but it illustrates some of the weather differences;

Climate Albany - New York °C | °F
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun
Average high in °F: 31 35 44 58 69 78
Average low in °F: 15 17 26 37 47 56
Av. precipitation in inch: 2.6 2.2 3.23 3.19 3.62 3.78
Days with precipitation: - - - - - -
Hours of sunshine: - - - - - -
Average snowfall in inch: 18 12 10 2 0 0

Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
Average high in °F: 82 80 72 60 48 36
Average low in °F: 61 60 52 40 31 21
Av. precipitation in inch: 4.13 3.46 3.31 3.66 3.31 2.91
Days with precipitation: - - - - - -
Hours of sunshine: - - - - - -
Average snowfall in inch: 0 0 0 0 3 14

 

[5030]

In the beginning net wrap was touted as sheltering the bale better from weather. I can't testify to that.

Only way that would happen is of you applied multiple wraps of net on a bale (more than 3) and that would defeat and negate any time difference between net and twining.

My customer as well as myself keep all the rounds inside anyway. Never any dry hay left to the elements.

 

[5030]

Our weather is about the same as NY State, why all hay is kept inside. If it's outside for any length of time, it's basically mulch.

 

[HayDR]

There is 4 times as many cattle in cow calf herds in Missouri than Michigan. On average 5' wide baler sales are 55-60% of the total USA market. There is 10 times more cattle in Texas than Michigan. Only 20% of US farmers bale high moisture hay. Farming varies greatly across the USA because of geographic and climate issues.

 

[RickB]

But yet all weather, herds, management styles, regulations and traditions are local. I worked at a NH single store dealership in NY for 21 years and we sold exactly two 5 foot wide round balers, both to the same guy. Probably 60 4 foot wide balers.

 

[5030]

Bottom line (at least with me) is, a 5 wide RB is no good for anything but a producer that isn't transporting rounds anywhere. Far as the net versus twine thing goes, I've did the cost analysis both ways and twine always comes out less expensive per bale, whether it's 10 or 100 or 1000. I takes more time to wrap than net, granted and I'll use net over twine if I'm looking at a pending weather event (I keep the net loaded and the twine boxes full, always but if I don't have time constraints, it's twine. Poly, not sisal. I'm not sure you can even buy sisal around here. I see no advantage in it, only disadvantages.

All my rounds get transported via public roadways so a 5 wide is a no go for me.

 

[ovrszd]

5030, how many bales do you wrap per year?

Side dump trailers that haul the bales in single file are common here. Negates the width issue with 5' bales. For large feeders 5' bales are most cost effective.