Case 1816 burning belts!

[nheine]

Hey Guys,

I have been surfing these forums for awhile, ever since I wanted to buy a skid steer and then when I had questions and now finally, I have my own dilemma.

I have a Case 1816 (not B or C) that has been repowered with a 20hp Onan years back. Bought it not running from a family friend for cheap knowing it had issues with a belt. Well, since then, I have replaced all the chains, had new keyways cut, and installed new bearings and seals. Also got the levers adjusted. The last thing I am fighting is my right side pump melting/shredding belts!

To date, I have gone through 8 belts trying to diagnose the issue. At first I thought it was just a cable adjustment issue (this is a manual lever engagement, not electric or centrifugal clutch). I adjusted them in and out, tried a size smaller and a size bigger belt. Currently I am running a pair of A30/4L320 belts. I was told this is a size smaller than stock, but I have them adjusted enough to disengage.

The pulley on the right side (issue side) is a tapered bushing sheave. I had to grind the sheave down on the side I am having issues with because it was hitting the engine pulley when disengaged. I have over and over again tried setting up the pulleys for proper alignment. Its as good as it gets. I also checked for angularity and it is better than the other side that has no problems!

I don稚 think the belt is slipping because, with the clutch engaged, the belt feels very tight. Could it be too tight???

As soon as I start the thing up with a fresh belt, it starts smelling like rubber and starts smoking within 1 min of just idling. I can post pictures and video if needed.

PLEASE HELP! I have sunk days worth of work and have easily had the engine out over a dozen times.

PS, I am running cheap D&D rubber v belts off amazon prime for 4 dollars I would blame the belt but the left side belt still is the first one I put on it!

 

[searcyfarms]

if its smelling at idle on that side - either the belt is too tight to slip until the lever that engages the belt is pressed - OR something is rubbing on the belt - since you have been through so many belts whats 4 more bucks, start it up with a fresh belt, waiting till it starts smoking and then shut it off or if you can see down inside, investigate the spot on the belt rather than trying to move it, see the spot its rubbing/wearing/hot and that might help troubleshoot - if the belt is shredding/coming apart, its likely something is rubbing rather than just slipping

 

[nheine]

if its smelling at idle on that side - either the belt is too tight to slip until the lever that engages the belt is pressed - OR something is rubbing on the belt - since you have been through so many belts whats 4 more bucks, start it up with a fresh belt, waiting till it starts smoking and then shut it off or if you can see down inside, investigate the spot on the belt rather than trying to move it, see the spot its rubbing/wearing/hot and that might help troubleshoot - if the belt is shredding/coming apart, its likely something is rubbing rather than just slipping

Thank you for the reply. First off, this has a manual engagement so when I say its smoking at idle, that is with the belts engaged. I actually have a belt on it right now that was run for about 2 minutes and started burning/smoking. I will remove it to see if one side is worse than the other on the v belt.

Any other ideas? Anyone experience this?

 

[searcyfarms]

easy fix, dont run it at idle LOL rev it up some ;-) - just kidding - if its tight and slipping, is this a stationary setup or a belt running on a variable speed pulley that changes geometry?

my neighbor has a 610 bobcat i believe it is and i was around when he tore it apart and put back together and it made with a variable speed pulley setup

if you had to make something fit properly it sounds like something may be moving too far or not enough or slipping when it should be engaged etc......

is the V of the pulley compromised? is something hanging and dragging and not turning freely when you engage from the milling/changes u made?

can you add pressure to see if something is getting bound up?

 

[nheine]

easy fix, dont run it at idle LOL rev it up some ;-) - just kidding - if its tight and slipping, is this a stationary setup or a belt running on a variable speed pulley that changes geometry?

my neighbor has a 610 bobcat i believe it is and i was around when he tore it apart and put back together and it made with a variable speed pulley setup

if you had to make something fit properly it sounds like something may be moving too far or not enough or slipping when it should be engaged etc......

is the V of the pulley compromised? is something hanging and dragging and not turning freely when you engage from the milling/changes u made?

can you add pressure to see if something is getting bound up?

It has a stationary belt set up, not variable. I am going to better inspect the pulley soon to see how the belt is riding on it. I had already inspected it for signs of basic wear and there was rubber "glued" to the v so I got that all cleaned up, but still it burned the next belt.

 

[crashz]

Is something bound up on the right side drive enough to make the belt the weak link? Maybe block the machine up so that the wheels are off the ground, check for free- wheeling or a hang up somewhere. Also try running it and seeing if the belt shreds under no load.

 

[searcyfarms]

Is something bound up on the right side drive enough to make the belt the weak link? Maybe block the machine up so that the wheels are off the ground, check for free- wheeling or a hang up somewhere. Also try running it and seeing if the belt shreds under no load.

Agree - remove belts and see what it turns like on one side vs other jacked up i would think it should be similar and u will likely find the issue - u might hv to set on blocks with all 4 off ground to get a true test - they are easier to turn with tires still on

 

[nheine]

Agree - remove belts and see what it turns like on one side vs other jacked up i would think it should be similar and u will likely find the issue - u might hv to set on blocks with all 4 off ground to get a true test - they are easier to turn with tires still on

So I am a bit confused by your request. after removing the belts, you are saying try turning the pump by hand? What would it matter if the wheels were on or off or it was in the air? The pump turns by hand either way as you arent spinning it fast enough to do much, right?

I have done this and both pumps turn with about the same resistance and feel. I didnt know if just spinning them by hand would be fast enough to feel anything wrong.

Thanks!

 

[searcyfarms]

ok so the belts drive the pumps direct? can you unhook the drive to the wheels and see if one side turns easier than the other, or switch the motor to the other side? are there chains that connect the front/rear wheels or belts? or drive motors on each set of wheels?

 

[nheine]

ok so the belts drive the pumps direct? can you unhook the drive to the wheels and see if one side turns easier than the other, or switch the motor to the other side? are there chains that connect the front/rear wheels or belts? or drive motors on each set of wheels?

The pumps each have their own belt. The "clutch" is just a cable driven disengagement that pivots the pumps towards the engine pulley. I cannot swap motors side to side, the hoses wont allow it (these machines are TINY). There is one motor per pump, one left and one right. They are then chain driven to the wheels. I replaced all chains, bearings, seals already. If you ignored the belt burning, the machine runs great. it tracks straight, can do a 360, etc. The wheels spin great with the drives out so its not that.

 

[searcyfarms]

i guess the only thing left is Case 1816 Skid Loader Belt To Chain Conversion. It works! - YouTube

 

[Egon]

Will this site offer any help?
[video]https://www.colemanequip.com/parts/model/Case-1816C-Uniloaders-Skid-Steer-Loaders-Parts/Power-Train-4X/SHEAVES-AND-DRIVE-BELTS-0DAL[/video]

 

[DJ54]

Instead of pulley's, or belts, it sounds to me more like the pump on that side may be partially deadheading somewhat against the return side, like the pressure relief is not working properly. In other words, that pump is continually pumping oil, and returning to the reservoir, until you divert that oil with the forward/reverse lever, relieving that pressure.

I'd first have to check the pressure relief valve, and direction control valve, and see if they are working properly. It could be a sticky relief valve, or something stuck behind the relief valve, not letting it open fully, and partially deadheading the pump. Possible worn o-rings on the directional valve, trying to drive the drive motors in both directions, until you relieve the pressure, by moving forward, or reverse.

Here's a link to the Case/IH online parts store. I only went as far as showing all 3 models. You can look at each of them, and drill down, and figure out which model you have, then trace the hydraulic system for that model to locate the valves. There's more than likely an exploded view of the valves. They may even have o-ring kits to rebuild them. Official Case IH Online Parts Store and Case IH Catalog for Best Parts Search and Best Parts Look Up. Case IH Parts for Case IH Tractors, Case IH Combines, Case IH Tractors, Case IH Manuals, Case IH Parts

 

[nheine]

Instead of pulley's, or belts, it sounds to me more like the pump on that side may be partially deadheading somewhat against the return side, like the pressure relief is not working properly. In other words, that pump is continually pumping oil, and returning to the reservoir, until you divert that oil with the forward/reverse lever, relieving that pressure.

I'd first have to check the pressure relief valve, and direction control valve, and see if they are working properly. It could be a sticky relief valve, or something stuck behind the relief valve, not letting it open fully, and partially deadheading the pump. Possible worn o-rings on the directional valve, trying to drive the drive motors in both directions, until you relieve the pressure, by moving forward, or reverse.

Here's a link to the Case/IH online parts store. I only went as far as showing all 3 models. You can look at each of them, and drill down, and figure out which model you have, then trace the hydraulic system for that model to locate the valves. There's more than likely an exploded view of the valves. They may even have o-ring kits to rebuild them. Official Case IH Online Parts Store and Case IH Catalog for Best Parts Search and Best Parts Look Up. Case IH Parts for Case IH Tractors, Case IH Combines, Case IH Tractors, Case IH Manuals, Case IH Parts

Awesome! Thanks for the help. I will look into this a bit more this weekend.

 

[nheine]

So a bit of an update. I noticed the pulley on the pump (the side burning belts) was a bit wider than the rest. Turns out it has a pulley (not original) for 4L/5L belts. I replaced it with the correct diameter smaller width pulley. I put everything back together and started her up. After a bit it started smelling and smoking a belt but now its the belt on the other side! I could barely touch the belt after 30 sec of running. I am convinced now that I just have the manual cable clutch wayyy to tight and some how burning the belts. Like, I almost have to use two hands to engage the belts. I dont have a spring scale so I cannot check the actual tension per the manual but they are TIGHT. So the next time I get a chance, I am going to put some slack into the system to see if that fixes it.

 

[searcyfarms]

interesting..............tight can cause heat for sure but usually not slipping, it could actually be sticking in the groove of the pulley and being pulled out so hard that could be causing it to act that way