Hydraulic question for post driver

[almost canadian]

Hi all.

As you will note from previous posts, while I have had a tractor for some years, I have no real mechanical knowledge at all!

I have a Kubota L4600 and I am looking to purchase a Shaver HD 8 post driver. I note that it comes with hoses but no couplers and that I need to determine whether I need a "plug package for tractors with closed center hydraulics." From what I have been able to determine, my tractor has an "open center gear pump." None of this means anything to me at all!

I have two hose attachments at the rear of my tractor, one of which is a detent.

I have never used any of the hose attachments and I am at work at the moment. From memory, the hose attachments look like those one would expect to see on a compressed air compressor.

In light of the above, can anyone please tell me what couplers I will need and whether I will need to purchase the plug package?

If anyone would like to provide me with any other pointers too, that would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks.

 

[RickB]

You do not need the closed center plug kit. You will need to have one male tip to match the remote coupler and will need to have whatever fittings you need to connect the return hose to the hydraulic fill port or other zero pressure return port. The use of quick couplers in the return line is discouraged. The folks at Shaver can help if your Shaver dealer cannot or will not.

 

[almost canadian]

You do not need the closed center plug kit. You will need to have one male tip to match the remote coupler and will need to have whatever fittings you need to connect the return hose to the hydraulic fill port or other zero pressure return port. The use of quick couplers in the return line is discouraged. The folks at Shaver can help if your Shaver dealer cannot or will not.

Thank you for your reply.

Where will I find the hydraulic fill port?

If you imagine that I am an idiot and make your explanation like you are speaking to an idiot, that would be great!

 

[RickB]

Probably a red cap in the area of the three point hitch top link mount bracket. The place where you add hydraulic oil to the tractor.

 

[almost canadian]

Probably a red cap in the area of the three point hitch top link mount bracket. The place where you add hydraulic oil to the tractor.

OK

So....

This is a picture of the back of my tractor.

As you will note there are two sets of connectors that are almost in the middle of the picture. I had assumed that I will simply connect both hoses to the post driver to the appropriate set of connectors so that the "from" and the return were dealt with that way.

From what you said, it is fine to connect the "from" to the post driver, but the return should go somewhere else. I have my tractor maintained by my local dealer so I have never put hydraulic oil into it. As you will note, there is a red cap to the left of the connectors. Is that the area you are referring to above?

My apologies for being so stupid!

 

[ch1ch2]

I wish I could help on this one.
I feel your pain, not knowing and afraid you will misunderstand.
Reading this thread, I can not feel pain with the answers you have received.
I am not knowing or do not understand.
My first question would be "why not use the return port" and my second thought is how dirty my tractor gets, I would be slow to take off the transmission fill plug and put a return hose there.

I will be following with interest.

 

[almost canadian]

I wish I could help on this one.
I feel your pain, not knowing and afraid you will misunderstand.
Reading this thread, I can not feel pain with the answers you have received.
I am not knowing or do not understand.
My first question would be "why not use the return port" and my second thought is how dirty my tractor gets, I would be slow to take off the transmission fill plug and put a return hose there.

I will be following with interest.

Thanks

I am happy to use either method of connecting the return and, if there is a good reason not to the use the quick coupler (as I anticipate there is) then I will use the transmission fill port. I have never taken the cap off so I have no idea what it looks like and how one connects anything to it. I will have a look tonight and I anticipate that I will simply need to obtain a connector that screws into the thread that is left by the cap.

 

[ericm979]

Those look like female 1/2" ag connectors, with dust caps in them. That's typical of modern CUTS.

You will need 1/2" male ag connectors to plug into them. They are not threaded. There is a locking collar that you push in to unlock to insert or remove the male coupler. Most tractors use ag connectors but there are other standards too, some that look similar. You can ask your dealer what kind of connectors are on yours. The standard ag type can be had at TSC or similar. They will have NPT thrads on them. Don't use teflon tape on the threads. I prefer Loctite 545 which is made to seal hydraulic threads. If the post hole driver has something other than 1/2" NPT on the hoses you will have to figure out what the use and buy adaptors. Or you can go to a hydraulic hose store or a good NAPA.

Some post hole drivers need a free flowing return. The standard route for the oil would be back into the tractor and through the valve that controls the 3pt. The post hole driver's manual will say if it needs a direct train line to the tank.

 

[Birdhunter1]

The post driver requires an unrestricted flow back to the sump, it can't flow fast enough through the return port on your remote valve to work. With the right fittings on the tractor and the driver dirt getting into your hydraulics will not be an issue. On my tractor I tapped a 3/4" NPT pipe nipple into the fill cap, with an elbow threaded onto that with a plug in the other side of the elbow. When I want to hook up my driver I unscrew the plug from the elbow, thread in a barbed fitting, slip the return hose over the barbed fitting and secure it with a hose clamp. I'm sure there is a faster way to hook it all up, but my method was home brew, cheap, is sealed against dirt/water intrusion, it works and didn't require a trip to anywhere when I went to fabricate it all up (parts were in bins/on the shelf/floating on a bench).

I mean it might work hooking up to your remotes, you might be able to pound a tee post in very slowly, but you will never put a 4" wooden post in the ground 3' deep.

 

[ericm979]

You could use a 3/4" ag coupler on that return line. It'd save threading and hose clamping when you attach and detach the post driver.

 

[ch1ch2]

You could use a 3/4" ag coupler on that return line. It'd save threading and hose clamping when you attach and detach the post driver.

I like that idea.

 

[Birdhunter1]

You could use a 3/4" ag coupler on that return line. It'd save threading and hose clamping when you attach and detach the post driver.

I have thought about that, but what I built cost me nothing I hadn't already spent and the parts were on hand. Its not like it is a tool I hook up often and even when I do it isn't a big task to hook up. There are a few times a year when the driver will not work, when the ground is hard and dry it won't work well. On frozen ground it will if the freeze isn't deep, usually the top is frozen and down lower it is soft. Spring and the wet fall time is the best, even putting them in the ground in an area with a spring that I had to lay out a row of posts to drive the tractor on it still set posts solid.

 

[Zebrafive]

You could use a 3/4" ag coupler on that return line. It'd save threading and hose clamping when you attach and detach the post driver.

I question a 3/4" AG coupler would offer free enough flow.

 

[ch1ch2]

I question a 3/4" AG coupler would offer free enough flow.

You will always have the resistance that is in the return hose diameter. Usually a 1/2 in hose. I guess you could take off the coupler altogether and replace it with a union.

 

[almost canadian]

Thanks for all of the replies.

The post driver is on order and I may be back once it arrives and I can't work out how to connect it!

 

[ericm979]

According to Parker a 3/4" coupler is rated for 28 gpm (at what pressure they don't say, probably full pressure). That's the same as they say 3/4" hose is rated for.

 

[Birdhunter1]

I think some people just don't understand that this equipment has to have a free flow back to the sump and running through a coupler will restrict it. My machine has a 3/4" hose that pipes directly to where you pour hydraulic oil into the trans, that is what it has to have. There are only a few couplers that will work, they are quite expensive compared to just a few black iron pipe fittings at the hardware store. Before someone comments about black iron pipe not being able to withstand hydraulic pressures realize there is very little pressure on this line but alot of flow, in fact I think my return line from the driver is just a heater hose.

 

[almost canadian]

On a somewhat related issue, this is the first attachment that I have used that will require any form of hydraulics. I assume that, when I disconnect the driver, some of the hydraulic fluid will remain in the driver and its hoses. If I am correct, will I need to add some fluid to the tractor once I disconnect the driver? I will be keeping the driver in our Quonset when it is not being used. Although I live in Canada, our Quonset is heated so I am not too concerned about it freezing (if that is even possible) but, as it will now be exposed to air, will it deteriorate being in the hoses/driver? Should I attempt to get as much as the fluid back into the tractor?

 

[ericm979]

A coupler rated for the same flow as the hose is not going to be much of a restriction.

 

[ericm979]

On a somewhat related issue, this is the first attachment that I have used that will require any form of hydraulics. I assume that, when I disconnect the driver, some of the hydraulic fluid will remain in the driver and its hoses. If I am correct, will I need to add some fluid to the tractor once I disconnect the driver? I will be keeping the driver in our Quonset when it is not being used. Although I live in Canada, our Quonset is heated so I am not too concerned about it freezing (if that is even possible) but, as it will now be exposed to air, will it deteriorate being in the hoses/driver? Should I attempt to get as much as the fluid back into the tractor?

The couplers close off the flow when disconnected. So the oil will not flow out of the implement. AG couplers dribble about a half teaspoon of oil each time you disconnect them. A tiny amount of air may get into the coupler but you'll never notice it. Even if you did get significant air in there, the way to get it out is to operate the cylinder.

What will happen however is that if you disconnect it at temp X and then go to connect it when it's significantly warmer, the oil will have expanded slightly. That will make it difficult or impossible to get the connectors to seat (or to disconnect the connectors on the implement if theres one male and one female and you connected them together). If this happens you can loosen one of the connectors and let a little oil out (doesn't take much). But if you loosen an NPT threaded connection and re-tighten it, it will leak. Maybe not the first time but eventually. NPT seals by deforming the threads and that's not a reusable connection. I find it better to do my plumbing using JIC connectors and use adaptors to get to NPT for fittings that need it (like the quick connects). You can also hit the ball on the end of the male connector with a hammer to get it to release a little oil, but I don't like doing that. I'm going to steal an idea someone else poster here and make a tee fitting with two quick connects and a valve. You plug that into the implement when you detach it and use the valve to release any built up pressure.