What machine would you want to do this task?

[4570Man]

So my Dad and I build and remodel houses. 3 builds and 3 remodels to date and probably leaning to the building side for future projects. So up until last year our equipment wasn’t adequate to tackle the whole project and we hired out a lot of the dirt work. For the current not yet completed build I owned a John Deere 310 and we’ve done all the dirt work. I do some work for hire to help justify owning the equipment. I don’t really care how it affects the bottom line. Playing in the dirt with equipment is my favorite part. But the point of this post. The 310 is way overkill for most of the work and I’m really suffering with the lack of versatility. My dad wants to buy a 75 Kubota CTL and keep the 310. I want to trade my 310 for a M59 and buy a midi trackhoe for doing the heavy work mostly lot clearing. The M59 would be seriously lacking for clearing without the midi hoe and would probably suffer using a 36” bucket required for a septic install. The skid steer would fall short many times throughout the project and I’d have to use the 310. The M59 could handle the whole job after the clearing was done. The M59 would be a lot better working by itself on the other side jobs. Buying the midi wouldn’t be absolutely essential but I figure that’s a few year break even point and doing any other work for other people with it would shorten the timeframe. The 310 is mine and I can do whatever I want with it but failing to convince him to buy a midi hoe instead of CTL wouldn’t go good with my plan.

 

[jaxs]

IMO,a Deere 310 industrial at around 50 horses and 12k Lbs with loader and hoe mounted shouldn't be overkill. One of the newer 310 letter machines such as 310j at 85 horses and 16k might be more than I'd want to haul for what you are doing.

 

[4570Man]

I own a 310 j turbocharged at 95 hp. But I really need a quick attach bucket and I really need to be able to set the hoe off for tighter places. Keep in mind I’m usually working on half acre lots or less. Next problem the 310 is 9.5 feet tall and doesn’t fit through any residual garage doors. I know I’d miss the strength of the 310 otherwise I’d already own the m59 and this thread wouldn’t exist. On the other hand it’s really lacking for some job. I own the truck to move it but I could sell that truck and cancel the nearly 2k a year insurance and license for it with the lighter m59.

 

[mikester]

I own a 310 j turbocharged at 95 hp. But I really need a quick attach bucket and I really need to be able to set the hoe off for tighter places. Keep in mind I知 usually working on half acre lots or less. Next problem the 310 is 9.5 feet tall and doesn稚 fit through any residual garage doors. I know I壇 miss the strength of the 310 otherwise I壇 already own the m59 and this thread wouldn稚 exist. On the other hand it痴 really lacking for some job. I own the truck to move it but I could sell that truck and cancel the nearly 2k a year insurance and license for it with the lighter m59.

Id buy a good sized bigger mini-ex with a blade if the 310 is too big for some spots. M59 is tall and wont fit in a residential garage with the ROPS on. Add a small trim dozer for grading and a compact telescopic crab steer telehandler...try the telehandler out you will be impressed with the versatility.

Hmmm, a tandem or tri-axel hooklift with a flat bed and dump box bed would be handy too, too bad about the commercial insurance. Its fun spending other peoples money!

 

[Gary Fowler]

So my Dad and I build and remodel houses. 3 builds and 3 remodels to date and probably leaning to the building side for future projects. So up until last year our equipment wasn’t adequate to tackle the whole project and we hired out a lot of the dirt work. For the current not yet completed build I owned a John Deere 310 and we’ve done all the dirt work. I do some work for hire to help justify owning the equipment. I don’t really care how it affects the bottom line. Playing in the dirt with equipment is my favorite part. But the point of this post. The 310 is way overkill for most of the work and I’m really suffering with the lack of versatility. My dad wants to buy a 75 Kubota CTL and keep the 310. I want to trade my 310 for a M59 and buy a midi trackhoe for doing the heavy work mostly lot clearing. The M59 would be seriously lacking for clearing without the midi hoe and would probably suffer using a 36” bucket required for a septic install. The skid steer would fall short many times throughout the project and I’d have to use the 310. The M59 could handle the whole job after the clearing was done. The M59 would be a lot better working by itself on the other side jobs. Buying the midi wouldn’t be absolutely essential but I figure that’s a few year break even point and doing any other work for other people with it would shorten the timeframe. The 310 is mine and I can do whatever I want with it but failing to convince him to buy a midi hoe instead of CTL wouldn’t go good with my plan.

Unless you are clearing huge boulders, I cant see where clearing a 1/2-1 acre lot of trees that need to be removed for the house would be outside of the M59 capabilities. Sure it isn't going to be as fast as the 310, but with a little patience it will get the job done. Unless you have lots of work for the 310, I would sell it and save the truck/insurance cost associated with ownership and just get the M59 and add a small trackhoe to the stable of implements that you have. You might save a bundle by going with a slightly used M59 rather than new.

 

[Jchonline]

SS + excavator seems to be the way to go. Plus they will grow with you (if you decide to clear larger projects). Sell the 310 and get the pair. If you expand enough and have need for a backhoe then you can pick up a suitable option down the road.

You could also rent for a bit and make sure it was a good decision.

 

[4570Man]

I don’t like a mini excavator for various reasons. If I get an excavator it’ll be a 20,000 pound one. The telhandlers can’t dig which doesn’t make them any better than a skid steer.

 

[finn1]

CTL plus a mini excavator. I wouldn’t go much over a 35-45 though, as you want to be able to tow it with a regular pickup and tag trailer.

You might want to consider a small dump truck or at least a dump trailer, too.

 

[4570Man]

The mini excavator requires the investment of owning 2 machines, paying insurance on 2 machines, still needs my big truck to move them both at the same time. Making 2 trips to move them looses more time than you ever stood to gain, the mini helps nothing or very little with the M59 not being strong enough, I really hate how slow they move around. That by itself is pretty much a deal breaker. Next problem with me only owning one of the 2 it would lead to nothing but trouble doing side work vs me owning the m59 and doing whatever I wanted with it.

 

[tradosaurus]

Get the M59 and rent the excavator.

 

[Xfaxman]

----------------------------------------------------------
The telhandlers can't dig which doesn't make them any better than a skid steer.

True for full size but a Compact Telehandler will out dig a CTL. I know that from personal experience with both machines using a one cubic yard toothed bucket:

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...pact-telehandler-post3243370.html#post3243370

 

[4570Man]

True for full size but a Compact Telehandler will out dig a CTL. I know that from personal experience with both machines using a one cubic yard toothed bucket:

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...pact-telehandler-post3243370.html#post3243370

View attachment 609447 View attachment 609448

View attachment 609449 View attachment 609450

They can’t dig a footer or utility trenches. So I’d still need the mini excavator or backhoe.

 

[4570Man]

I don’t think they’d compete with a skid steer for precision dirt work like spreading fill in a garage or spreading fill against the house for drainage and finish grading a yard. They’d definitely be better for setting trusses. I’d say the loader is a little stronger than the m59 but not as strong as the 310. I don’t think the m59 loader will be a problem and will do everything I want. Another thing I don’t like about the skid that the TH wouldn’t be any better at is 360 visibility. It’s exhausting to work a skid in tight areas and constantly have to be aware of every corner position.

 

[EddieWalker]

Around here, all the home builders that I know either hire out their dirt work or they rent the equipment to do the job. I own a few things for my land, but when I need something for a job, I rent it and pass on the cost of the rental to my client. When I was building, I hired a dirt crew that came in and got the pad ready in a day. Concrete forms would go up the next day. There is just too much money laying around in owning your equipment if you are not using it every day, and too much time fixing it when you need it to make you money.

 

[4570Man]

Even if you planned everything at maximum efficiency you’re probably going to have 2k in rentals. I use my equipment all the time for doing just a little job that I’d either have to do by hand or delay process to wait until the next rental. It would pretty much knock out doing side dirt work. I don’t get rich doing that but it’s enough to pretty much pay the expense of having equipment. Next problem due to inspections what could take one day can’t be finished and I’d have to rent another machine Working nice equipment leads to little downtime. I’ve only had to stop my 310 one time to fix a hose I knocked off and a rental would have suffered the same problem. Not to mention I’d have lost 2 hours off the clock of my rental.

 

[Xfaxman]

They can't dig a footer or utility trenches. So I'll still need the mini excavator or backhoe.

They can dig a footer or utility trench:

I have used the stump bucket to dig drainage trenches:

 

[4570Man]

At what cost in overall efficiency? It’s trading for a little bit better loader and a way worse backhoe. And digging across an open field vs digging a footer and septic system and utility trenches stopped at both ends is a completely different set of requirements.

 

[rScotty]

Get the M59 and rent the excavator.

That's what I would do. For the past 5 years I've owned both a JD310SG with 6000 hrs and an M59 with 1000 hrs doing flood repair, landscaping, and some general backhoe work.
First things first: reliability. Both machines have been reliable - although right now the 310SG has some sort of problem with it's temp gauge that I can't seem to find & I'm too stubborn to call out the dealer. I sure wish there was an online forum as good as TBN for JD310 TLBs. If something similar went wrong on the M59, there's a ton of people here on TBn with knowledge who can help.
Otherwise, both tractors have had their main boom hydraulic cylinder rebuilt, but for different reasons. The M59 had to have a throttle cable replaced. And that's about it.

Both start and run fine. The M59 has a 6 range HST and the JD310 has the 4 speed powershift. Both are MFWD. The M59 is better on snow and ice. The M59 transmission is much handier for loader work than the 310 powershift. The 310 is much better traveling down a road with a load in the bucket. It would be better anyway, but the 310 has comfort ride & I didn't add that to the M59. Should have done so. The 310 also has an air seat which the M59 lacks but sure could use. In spite of that, we use the M59 a lot more just because it is nearly the power and much more handy. I ought to add those things to the M59 & maybe will someday. Or not.....

The 310 with a tall vertical exhaust sure beats the M59's low exhaust in the fume-eating department. I keep meaning to put a vertical stack on the M59, but it is nice not to have it there to hit things.... tossup..

The JD can lift and carry more than the M59, but you almost never need to. The M59 has a 1 cu yd bucket & 4000 lb lift capacity. Even heaped up you just can't stuff much more than 3000 lbs in that size bucket - which the M59 handles with ease.
The JD310 has a much heavier 1.3 cu ft FEL bucket & 6000 lb capacity, but not nearly as good visibility as the M59. The M59 can load it's bucket fuller and quicker with less hassle and damage to the surroundings. The JD carries a load without bouncing so much.
Both machines are can lift a full load high enough to load a dump truck.

Same for the backhoe. The JD is more powerful, but the M59 has plenty of power for the hoe. Both hoes have plenty of power to pick the machine up and shake it like a dog with a bone.. The M59 has a thumb and the JD doesn't. Big difference there. Lots of time it is the thumb that makes the difference. Having a hydraulic thumb is almost like having a whole extra machine on site. I don't have a 36" BH bucket. Both tractors have quick change BH bucket attach - but I usually use a 24" bucket.. But I'd guess that either tractor has enough backhoe power to use a 36" bucket in average soil about the same. The M59 doesn't care whether it has the 24" or 12" bucket. More than enough curl and lift power. I use 24" on either machine in rocky soil. It's about the same.

The M59 has an open platform with a thick insulated canopy versus the JD310 which has a cab with heat & AC. I am lucky because I can choose to work on nice days. On nice days the open platform M59 is much more convenient for actually getting work done and I really like the big insulated canopy. It's usually plenty. But in nasty weather the JD310 wins hands down - as long as you aren't always getting in and out of the cab. If so, it's a pain.

The 6-range HST on the M59, thumb, and smaller size plus nearly as much power as the 310 but with half the weight all mean we use the M59 more. It's always the first choice unless we need the extra reach of the JD backhoe's extendahoe. Then we use the 310 and glad to have it..... but after that extra reach job is done we usually park the 310 and get back on the M59.

rScotty

 

[4570Man]

Are they really nearly comparable machines? On paper the 310 is nearly double on every aspect which is why I bought it to start with. I don’t like the 310 bucket or any other tractor loader bucket. The 90 degree triangle buckets on a SS are much better. If I can convince my dad to buy a M59 instead of a ctl we could run them side by side and decide for ourselves but if I buy the m59 I’d have the sell the 310 first.

 

[rScotty]

Are they really nearly comparable machines? On paper the 310 is nearly double on every aspect which is why I bought it to start with. I don’t like the 310 bucket or any other tractor loader bucket. The 90 degree triangle buckets on a SS are much better. If I can convince my dad to buy a M59 instead of a ctl we could run them side by side and decide for ourselves but if I buy the m59 I’d have the sell the 310 first.

Of course they aren't comparable on paper or on ultimate power. Saying the 310 has double isn't quite right, but it does have double the power (and weight) some places. It would be more accurate to say that the 310 had about 50% more lift power, and more than double the pushing power. In general it doesn't have double the ability everywhere, but it does have more than 50% more.

But ultimate power doesn't mean much when I'm working. All that extra ability doesn't matter if you don't use it. And the truth is that for most work I don't use the machine at full RPM and full power. Maybe that's just the way I work, but I'm usually at about half power or maybe two thirds on the M59. Both machines have auto-throttel so the motor powers up when it hits a load and returns to idle when you ease off.

So the reason I say they are about equal in power most of the time is because when doing real work I'm rarely using full power on the M59 or on the 310. So for me they are surprisingly equal in power.
For example I had to remove a bunch of stumps with deep root balls on some 24 to 36" diameter trees. That's tough work. I used both machines. They were about the same as far as digging and moving dirt. There was one time I remember when I got into some lateral roots that were too big to rip out and the backhoe would just try to lift the whole machine off the ground. Both machines were about the same power there too. Neither could slice the root, and either one could hook onto the root and lift the rest of the machine off the ground. So what does it matter that the 310 with twice the power could lift itself that weighs twice as much? Sometimes you can't use the power.

Where the M59 really shines is in being fast and handy with sufficent power. It's lighter, but it's a serious commercial tool and no toy. It's just so much easier to maneuver into tight places and zip around. With the 310 I'm always concerned I'm going to knock into something.

Here's something to think about. Look at those photos I pictured. A lot of the 310's power comes from being built so heavily that it can't ever hurt itself even if it is being run by an idiot. To move all that weight and bulk you need the extra power. The M59 is a more precise tool and needs less weight and ultimate power - but it does not have the near-invulnerability of the 310. An idiot could probably find a way to use it's own power to damage an M59 easier than he could damage the 310. The 310 is definitely able to handle more deliberate abuse...and also dish it out.

If I were you, I'd see about renting an M59 to see how it works on the job. It just doesn't look as sturdy next to the 310 in the photos. You have to try it to like it. Also, some people really like skid steers because the visibility is way better than any TLB. But for me, having a BH and thumb is huge, and I just prefer running a TLB to a skidsteer. Especially on rough ground which is where I usually am.

The reason I have both is because sometimes I need the extra reach of the 310 extenda-hoe. I didn't get it for the power. If I had to do it over again, I would get the 310G, not the SG. And I would get a manual tranny with reverser rather than the powershift on the 310.
rScotty