Oil & Fuel GC2410 Filter/Fluid Refresh, Questions..

[mgstevens]

After experiencing a gutless hydro, sticking hydro pedals and a shudder (after working the backhoe) on this new-to-me 2009 GC2410, I unmounted the backhoe, checked hydro fluid (didn't see any in the window) added some to solve the empty window, and noticed a gutsier hydro and pedals coming back to neutral quicker, but the shudder remained.

I looked at the air filter (dark, sooty) and the fuel filter (holding back chunks, very dark) and then noticed I had a new hydro filter and three 5L jugs of hydro fluid. I used some of the hydro fluid to get some to show in the window (see above) and wondered about whether to use the rest of this "meets or exceeds" generic fluid. This forum said "No" mostly, and I began the search for the best fluid I could get in this area. Along with the dim-looking air and fuel filters, the new hydro filter box yielded an invoice, for one filter - from fall 2010! This would have been a year after the tractor was originally purchased. It was not used then... Could this be the FIRST time these filters and fluids are getting changed? I parked the tractor in the shed, not to be run until it got a refresh, and began amassing the fresh filters and fluid it so desperately needed.

In the end, the regional dealer had a reasonable price on Kubota Premium UDT hydro fluid, which they use in everything (they are also a MF dealer) and I ordered up 3 jugs and new filter elements for the air and fuel, and a few miscellaneous missing parts (ROPS linch-pin, SMV sign-spade..) which came in this morning.

First thing I noticed when looking at the drains for the hydro and front axel, is that they are all LOW to the ground. Too low for my oil-catch containers anyway, so I had to look at getting the machine in the air. With some car ramps, the FEL hydraulics and a couple of jack-stands I gained 6"+/- and commenced the freshening operation. Pic here of the elevated patient.


The fuel filter was "organic" as in, supporting a farm of chunks and grunge, some of which may have been living. That change process went well. The hydro appears to have yielded about 10 liters of oil.
Interestingly, while the manual says to use sealant on drain plug (19mm), my main hydro drain had an "O" ring and no trace of sealant. The "suction filter" was interesting to remove and clean. 7/8" head BTW (or metric equiv. which I did not have..) It does come out without wheel removal, which was convenient, given how it was up on ramps and all. Lots of tiny metal shards and bits, carefully removed with solvent and a soft brush to reveal no screen damage. Air-gun dried and returned with "o" rings intact. New (old, but factory seal-wrapped) filter installed and time for the new premium go-juice.

I added exactly 11 liters as the manual shows for capacity, but I see nothing showing in the window.

Can any of you speak to that? Do I just keep adding until it shows in the window? Is the right level at the mid-point of the window?

FWIW, the machine does seem to run better - I mean, how could it not? Anyway, I just wanted to get the fluid-fill right so I can know I'm starting from a good point.

Thanks!

 

[DMW]

The goal is mid-way with all cylinders retracted.
From the pic, once you lower the FEL and bucket, it should raise the fluid level so it can be seen in the sight glass. If not, start it up and take a look while it's running. Don't over fill, as you have just changed the oil to the spec. capacity.
New oil can be very clear, difficult to see if it completely fills the sight glass.

Couple other comments.
Did you check the blades on the hydro cooling fan while you had it up?
If it is overfull, adjust the level by disconnecting one of the FEL bucket lines, and drain into a clean container using the FEL valve. A lot easier than using the bottom drain.(with the bucket lowered of course)
The shudder you describe, is it a sympathetic vibration with engine RPM, or a jerkiness when operating the hydraulics?

 

[ray66v]

If the oil filter was painted the gray, (the color of the rear end housing), it's the original one.

Add oil until you see it at any mid point in the sight glass, with the tractor level. Don't obsess over it, it's not critical.

I would go over the entire tractor. Clearly, it was not maintained well.

Dealers are notorious for missing grease fittings during "prep" for delivery, or not making sure they take grease. If the owner did not grease things either, there may be some fittings that are bone dry. Some fittings require effort to find.

Check the hoses to make sure they are not rubbing on anything, and nothing is rubbing on them. They are not always routed correctly. You can save yourself a big headache, if you catch this before it's too late.

 

[mgstevens]

The goal is mid-way with all cylinders retracted.
...
New oil can be very clear, difficult to see if it completely fills the sight glass.
...
Did you check the blades on the hydro cooling fan while you had it up?

Nice to know the machine state for optimum fluid level measurement.
The fluid is very light, but the window is empty versus full.
Yes, checked all the blades on the hydro fan and all is well.

 

[mgstevens]

If the oil filter was painted the gray, (the color of the rear end housing), it's the original one.

Add oil until you see it at any mid point in the sight glass, with the tractor level. Don't obsess over it, it's not critical.

I would go over the entire tractor. Clearly, it was not maintained well.

Dealers are notorious for missing grease fittings during "prep" for delivery, or not making sure they take grease. If the owner did not grease things either, there may be some fittings that are bone dry. Some fittings require effort to find.

Check the hoses to make sure they are not rubbing on anything, and nothing is rubbing on them. They are not always routed correctly. You can save yourself a big headache, if you catch this before it's too late.

Hmm.. The replacement filter and the one that was on it are a very dark green, so perhaps at least the 50 hour was done at the dealer..?

With the oil, I know the manual's specified quantity has been added. I wondered if a new filter is taken into account on that capacity?

The tractor was pretty gently used. Owner was in failing health and that could have impacted maintenance, but all grease fittings show ample grease oooze, but I will be confirming all.

The lower rad hose is not chafed or worn in any way near the throttle linkage that is listed as the issue, and being a "northern tractor" it has a block heater and, I believe, a decent original dealer.

I will check the other hoses.

I'm pretty sure it just needs some TLC, which I am happy to provide. I need a trusty machine to develop and maintain my property.

 

[DMW]

Cylinders retracted is an industry standard for any hydraulic equipment. Ensures there is enough room in the reservoir. If you gauged the level with them extended, the returning oil from the cylinders may exceed the capacity of the reservoir.

Using the FEL, slowly raise the front end until you can see the fluid in the sight glass. It should come into view if the level is low.

 

[mgstevens]

Cylinders retracted is an industry standard for any hydraulic equipment. Ensures there is enough room in the reservoir. If you gauged the level with them extended, the returning oil from the cylinders may exceed the capacity of the reservoir.

Using the FEL, slowly raise the front end until you can see the fluid in the sight glass. It should come into view if the level is low.

All good things to know, given how little I do know about hydraulics. I will try the FEL-lift test to see where the level is. Thanks.

 

[ray66v]

Hmm.. The replacement filter and the one that was on it are a very dark green

I know of no such approved filter.

Only the OEM and a NAPA filter, (the NAPA filter just came out), are known approved filters for this application. Both were using white, the last time I bought from them.

The fluid capacity is never exact, because of the loader and residual fluid in the hoses and cylinders. you have to go by the sight glass, not the book.

If you can't verify you have a MF filter, I suggest you order one, and change it. If you are having issues It could be the problem.

 

[mgstevens]

I know of no such approved filter.

Only the OEM and a NAPA filter, (the NAPA filter just came out), are known approved filters for this application. Both were using white, the last time I bought from them.

The fluid capacity is never exact, because of the loader and residual fluid in the hoses and cylinders. you have to go by the sight glass, not the book.

If you can't verify you have a MF filter, I suggest you order one, and change it. If you are having issues It could be the problem.

Yeah, the filter came from an Agco dealer, dealer invoice for it, and came in this box. The part number says it's the OEM part in an online search.




It should be fine. I would like to gather more opinions though: Which to follow/believe for the proper hydro fluid level: the window or the listed capacity?

 

[RedGeminiPA]

Always go by the window on level ground, as suggested above.

 

[MF RED in MT]

When refilling the hydro/trans, I watch the "oil level window" as I am pouring in the last ( 2.9 US Gals. ) qt. of transmission oil, and end my filling when the level is half way in the window.

My Operators Manual says it is important to make sure your 3 point hitch is fully lowered before draining the transmission oil.

If you are really worried about the level of transmission oil, it would not be a major project to add/drain the oil until you are positive there is oil showing half way in the sight window.

KC

 

[ray66v]

A google search of the oil filter, only shows them with a white canister, and the MF dark grey. Thankfully, you have the box.

It doesn't make sense to fill the oil to the "rated capacity", and declare it filled, when the window is clearly showing you it is not full. What would be the point of the window then?

 

[cdaigle430]

Yeah I always make sure the window level is at least half full after changing the hydro. I also always write the hours and date I change the filters on the filter to help keep track.
I am do for the change this year (250 hours)

 

[mgstevens]

Thanks for the opinions. Someone mentioned that overfilling could be worse than underfilling, and that has me concerned about adding. On the manual's remark to lower the 3-pt before changing the oil: I tried to do that to no avail. The control when put "down" did not alter anything in the 3-pt area. In fact, by all appearances, the 3-pt has never been used on this tractor.

 

[DMW]

Your fluid level was in the sight glass prior to the oil change? Approx. 10L of oil was drained. 11L of oil was added. Cylinders on the FEL extended during this, increasing the volume of oil in the sight glass when retracted.

It may appear empty, but it only takes a liter to go from empty to completely full. The clear oil can be very deceptive when looking at it.

 

[mgstevens]

After purchase and the [[shudder]] I removed the backhoe, saw no oil in the sight glass and added a "few" (2-3) liters before it came up in the sight glass. That oil was darker than this new oil and was easy to notice in the glass. I just spoke to the dealer tech, who also was unclear... He suggested adding a liter or so to see if it comes up, agreeing that this UDT is so light in color that it is hard to see in the glass.

One would think that with the mfg-specified amount in the transmission, running would be safe to do regardless of the level at the sight glass. I wish this were not a judgement call... I prefer to know one way or the other.

 

[DMW]

You might be overthinking it. All you're doing is filling a sump. If it is over the fill line, it may send excess fluid out the breather valve, or hydro drain hose, depending on the angle the tractor is on. More likely to happen when on a slope. Short video I've posted before, shows the relationship between reservoir capacity, fluid level and the breather valve (that's the fill plug on the GCs). You are not going to damage any internals AFAIK.

 

[mgstevens]

You might be overthinking it.

Hey! I resemble that remark!:scratchchin: Although I have found that if you thoroughly consider everything, and stay short of anxiety, you'll succeed at far more things than you'll fail at.

Seeing as I got the machine needing more fluid than it should, I do want to make sure I'm restoring the maintenance items to the right operating conditions before I start working the machine. Once I have more experience with this tractor, I'm sure I'll relax, but right now, it's about getting it as right as I can.

The video was instructive, as I know very little about hydraulics. Folks talk about adding oil until it is seen and draining it if too much, but... well, I guess I was hoping it would be more straightforward. (ie: The amount listed as capacity would show as the half-way point in the window..:no

If the symptom of overfull is it coming out of the breather/fill tube, and no danger of damage internally (although some have described foaming, overpressure..) then I can add without too much worry.

Thanks.

 

[DMW]

Just curious, have you operated the tractor since the fluid change?

 

[mgstevens]

Just curious, have you operated the tractor since the fluid change?

Yes, but not much, and not for any real work, just a shakedown, during which it operated nicely. No backhoe on yet. Wanted to get the fluid level right before re-attaching the BH.