10,000 GVWR

[Cat_Driver]

First lets talk liability.
I was reading a thread where everyone was concerned about towing and liability in an accident. I get that. So if everyone is concerned about towing limits and the law should we all go straight to the scales after we load up?
I just purchased a 2019 F250 that is "derated" to 10,000 GVWR because of cheaper DMV registration.
Some say the F250 is EXACTLY like the F350 ( some say except for one more spring)
So my point is everyone is concerned about the "numbers" on paper and ignore the actual weight once everyone gets loaded up with equipment, passengers, fuel in the tank, accessories etc.
Sure I guess if there was an accident lawyers could take everything from the scene and weigh it and match that up with "legal" numbers.
My question is how many people follow the law by the exact numbers and then verify that by weight scales after they load up?

I watched aguy pull in with the same truck pull into the dump with a Big Tex trailer 16' long by 7' wide, by 4' tall sides 1/2 - 3/4 full of dirt.
Now here's my math.
Dirt weighs between 2,000 pouns and 3,000 punds a cubic yard.
8.29 Cubic yards times lets do 2,500 pound to b fair.
That's 20,725.00 pounds on a trailer that max GVWR 14,000 Trailer weight 4,250 PAYLOAD 9,750 ( all from their web site)
Total weight being pulld by the truck my calculations......24,975.00 on a truck that is supposed to pull (from ford) 4x4 short bed diesel is 15,000 lbs.
The load was so heavy the dump trailer would not lift the load he had to shovel 1/2 the load off by hand.
He drove in like he didn't feel the load and whipped it around for a dump like he was hauling grass clippings.
Example of not going to a weigh station sfter being loaded.

 

[ovrszd]

I've weighed my F250 with GN trailer hauling various loads to get an idea of where I am. I've moved the load to maximize weight distribution. In some instances I might be right up against my legal weight but rarely over it.

I think you over estimated the load at the dump. I don't think loose dirt will weigh that much. But obviously the trailer wasn't happy. It not being able to dump might be related to how he loaded the bed??

My truck doesn't crawl around laboring when it's grossing 24K. I always use low side in confined areas simply to relieve some pressure from my AT. I've pulled my trailer several thousand miles grossing in the low 20s. Only time the truck suffers is in long uphill climbs. Normal Interstate hiway travel is no problem.

What powertrain do you have? Have you pulled a trailer with it yet?

 

[RickB]

Don’t focus on pulling the load. Figure out if you can stop it safely. Every time.

 

[ovrszd]

Don’t focus on pulling the load. Figure out if you can stop it safely. Every time.

Yep. Totally agree.

And let's not get confused concerning GVWR and GCVWR.

 

[Redlands Okie]

2500 lbs per cubic yard is a very reasonable estimate.

For sand I usually allow 2750 per yard as just a rough number in my head to use. 3000 easy to get if its wet

 

[Cat_Driver]

I've weighed my F250 with GN trailer hauling various loads to get an idea of where I am. I've moved the load to maximize weight distribution. In some instances I might be right up against my legal weight but rarely over it.

I think you over estimated the load at the dump. I don't think loose dirt will weigh that much. But obviously the trailer wasn't happy. It not being able to dump might be related to how he loaded the bed??

My truck doesn't crawl around laboring when it's grossing 24K. I always use low side in confined areas simply to relieve some pressure from my AT. I've pulled my trailer several thousand miles grossing in the low 20s. Only time the truck suffers is in long uphill climbs. Normal Interstate hiway travel is no problem.

What powertrain do you have? Have you pulled a trailer with it yet?

When you say you "moved the load to maximize weight distribution"

1) Are you doing this by eye / experience
2) Doing it at the scales?
3) Do you use a toungue scale?

What is teh best way to adjust a load and be spot on with weight distrobution.
Not a great think if they gave me a "paper" limit of 10K GVWR and the truck can do twice that but legally limits are limits.
Even both axles are rated for higher than the the 10K individually.

 

[Jstpssng]

I pulled into a coworker's dooryard just behind him as he was hauling a borrowed dump trailer loaded with crushed stone. At quick estimate I figured he had about 3 yards on, and he confirmed that it weighed 8100 lbs plus the weight of the trailer. He had pulled it right through town with his company 1/2 ton Sierra and no trailer brakes, but said that the truck handled it just fine. That may be the case but I would not have wanted to be in front of him if something went wrong. As far as liability he didn't have a dime into any of it; both trailer and tow vehicle belonged to somebody else.

 

[oosik]

Regarding liability. Some have a lot to loose - some have nothing. Being within the legal load limits, should there be an accident, will only be a minor part of the final equation. The limits of any insurance policy will only be a minor concern should it be serious.

Get in an accident - risk loosing it all. Being able to safely transport any load should be the major concern.

 

[RickB]

As far as liability he didn't have a dime into any of it; both trailer and tow vehicle belonged to somebody else.

That’s a blissfully ignorant comment if ever there was one. He was driving, completely responsible, ultimately liable.

 

[KennyG]

That’s a blissfully ignorant comment if ever there was one. He was driving, completely responsible, ultimately liable.

Morally, you are correct - a person is liable for everything he does. However, oosik is correct legally. In this country today, if you have nothing you seem to be liable for nothing - everything is considered financially. I'm jaded on this because I live in a state where about 25% of the drivers are uninsured.

 

[Jchonline]

Be a responsible human. Do we really need to say more? The weight limits are there based on safety testing and thousands of accidents. Can we please protect our fellow citizens on the road and follow the rules.

 

[MoMower]

Morally, you are correct - a person is liable for everything he does. However, oosik is correct legally. In this country today, if you have nothing you seem to be liable for nothing - everything is considered financially. I'm jaded on this because I live in a state where about 25% of the drivers are uninsured.

Criminal side, driver is 100% liable for what he’s driving. Civil side, deeper pockets become liable...lol

 

[ovrszd]

When you say you "moved the load to maximize weight distribution"

1) Are you doing this by eye / experience
2) Doing it at the scales?
3) Do you use a toungue scale?

What is teh best way to adjust a load and be spot on with weight distrobution.
Not a great think if they gave me a "paper" limit of 10K GVWR and the truck can do twice that but legally limits are limits.
Even both axles are rated for higher than the the 10K individually.

I have access to a tandem axle scale platform at a farmer friend's grain bin site. Very easy to move the load, reweigh and see the results axle by axle.

 

[Redlands Okie]

In this state, oklahoma, the money claims go after the vehicle insurance carrier first. So loaning out a vehicle and something goes wrong its the responsibility of the vehicle owner insurance.

They driver is still going to get the ticket and be held accountable for their actions. Sometimes even the vehicle owner is held accountable. Have seen two instances where the vehicle was used by a relative without consent and when the law and lawyers came after the vehicle owner the only way the vehicle owner could get out of it and not loose everything was to admit it was taken with out permission and file it as stolen.

 

[Cat_Driver]

I won't even loan out tools to friends because of liability issues. Many have asked to borrow tractor, or one of my large box trucks, but my standard answer is sorry my insurance company won't allow it or they will cancel me. I agree once the shysters get involved - watch out they will come for your retirement fund and your kids college money. The second someone gets hurt with yoru equipment you no longer have a friend or relative as they will sue you to the moon and back if they can get a huge payday!. I'd rather lose a friend by saying NO, than have them get hurt and sue me becuse I will lose that friend anyway.

Listening to these comments I'm realizing that chances are people towing anything except for professional trucker ( and even some of them are hopped up on stay awake pills) are probably over weight and need to be given a WIDE BERTH on the road.
Here is California we have a highway that goes straight to Mexcio, the 86 freeway.
On a regular basis there are old 70's and 80's one ton tucks loaded so high with used lumberfrom trearing down old homes that they barely make it under the bridges. They are easily stacked above the legal limit even by the way the rear end sags on the vehicle. Why the highway patrol doesn't stop these guys on a daily basis is beyond me.
As it is I avoid ever being behind a rock hauler, lowboy trailer full or empty, cement truck, etc. all because I've see way too many falling rocks come at me and my windshield.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Got this from another site for a better undrstanding.

One thing that should be noted is that the GVWR of the RAM 2500 is 10,000 lbs. At one time that was the GVWR of a 3500. The formerly used terms of 3/4 ton or 1 ton are no longer applicable to these vehicles.
A little known important issue is the DOT defines a commercial vehicle (CMV) as a vehicle exceeding a 10,000 lb. GVWR.
If an owner of a RAM 3500, Chevy 3500 or Ford F-350 uses their vehicle for business purposes the truck is subject to Federal regulation. The driver must pass a DOT physical, the truck must have a DOT inspection, and Hours of Service regulations. Records must be kept of vehicle maintenance and drivers' working hours. The truck cannot haul property belonging to anyone else unless he receives motor carrier authority. Drivers must be at least 21 years of age to cross state lines. These regulations don't apply if the vehicle is only for private use like pulling an RV but just making a business tax deduction for using the truck will cause it to be considered a CMV.
All this can be avoided if a truck has a maximum GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less.

Pickup Trucks 11: Why Weight Capacities Are Important - PickupTrucks.com News


Also from the DMV in Ca. .........The following trucks are not pickups:
• Trucks with an open box-type bed that weigh more than 8,000 pounds unladen or exceed the manufacturer’s GVWR of 11,500 pounds (“varied” BTM)

 

[ovrszd]

Listening to these comments I'm realizing that chances are people towing anything except for professional trucker ( and even some of them are hopped up on stay awake pills) are probably over weight and need to be given a WIDE BERTH on the road.

That was a "wide stroke" of the brush....

CDL truck drivers are drug tested. They might have just finished a "Red Bull", but that's probably true of 50% of the younger car drivers that just passed you. The days of White Cross pills for truck drivers are gone.

 

[zoedog2012]

I won't even loan out tools to friends because of liability issues. Many have asked to borrow tractor, or one of my large box trucks, but my standard answer is sorry my insurance company won't allow it or they will cancel me. I agree once the shysters get involved - watch out they will come for your retirement fund and your kids college money. The second someone gets hurt with yoru equipment you no longer have a friend or relative as they will sue you to the moon and back if they can get a huge payday!. I'd rather lose a friend by saying NO, than have them get hurt and sue me becuse I will lose that friend anyway.

Listening to these comments I'm realizing that chances are people towing anything except for professional trucker ( and even some of them are hopped up on stay awake pills) are probably over weight and need to be given a WIDE BERTH on the road.
Here is California we have a highway that goes straight to Mexcio, the 86 freeway.
On a regular basis there are old 70's and 80's one ton tucks loaded so high with used lumberfrom trearing down old homes that they barely make it under the bridges. They are easily stacked above the legal limit even by the way the rear end sags on the vehicle. Why the highway patrol doesn't stop these guys on a daily basis is beyond me.
As it is I avoid ever being behind a rock hauler, lowboy trailer full or empty, cement truck, etc. all because I've see way too many falling rocks come at me and my windshield.

As long as they are headed South, let them be, headed North, that's a different story.

 

[Haoleguy]

I find these GVWR discussions interesting and confusing. This coming year I will be leaving my aging 1/2 ton truck for a new 1 ton truck. The confusion I have is over the GVWR rating choices for trucks. Since my focus has been on a GMC SRW 1 ton if I base the 2020 model on the 2019 model year it looks like the GVWR will be 10K & 10.5K for gas and 11.1K for diesel. Why does it matter what the GVWR is between these? Is it insurance cost ? The truck will be for personal/farm use and not in a commercial truck use. Thanks for replies.

 

[nikerret]

I’ve moved enough stuff with my dump trailer to have an educated guess on weight by how it sits. I live in farm country and have access to scales, when necessary. When I first got this setup, I hit the scales nearly every load. I even took notes. Now, I can usually guess within a few hundred pounds, with known materials.