Your thoughts on this framing job

[EddieWalker]

Thanks Randy. The place where the damage happened said that they had high winds, but hasn't replied to any of my questions. I asked another friend in the area, and she said that they winds where not very bad at their place. I looked online to see what was reported and only saw the winds in the mid 20's.

Regardless of the wind speed, the framing on the wall has some horrible flaws. One of the reasons that I haven't heard back from them might be that I said that it might have been a blessing that it collapsed now, and not later on when it was all done and people where inside there.

Here are a few more pictures that I found on her FB page.





I think this last picture shows the main issue. The studs only go up 8 feet and then they started framing again on top of the double top plates. There isn't any strength there to keep the wall standing up straight and it just folded in on itself.

 

[hr3]

Thanks Randy. The place where the damage happened said that they had high winds, but hasn't replied to any of my questions. I asked another friend in the area, and she said that they winds where not very bad at their place. I looked online to see what was reported and only saw the winds in the mid 20's.

Regardless of the wind speed, the framing on the wall has some horrible flaws. One of the reasons that I haven't heard back from them might be that I said that it might have been a blessing that it collapsed now, and not later on when it was all done and people where inside there.

Here are a few more pictures that I found on her FB page.

View attachment 595704

View attachment 595705

I think this last picture shows the main issue. The studs only go up 8 feet and then they started framing again on top of the double top plates. There isn't any strength there to keep the wall standing up straight and it just folded in on itself.

You nailed it it is like a deck of cards just waiting to come down. Not one stud going up all thee way. Also if you look close at the very first pic. you posted, they don't look like 2by4's ?? If you compare the 2 pieces of scrap wood to the plank on the staging it's thinner even the rafters look thin. Maybe it's just the angle ...

 

[Rustyiron]

Eddie you know that there are "vulnerable" stages of construction where all the parts to the puzzle are not there yet and wind happens.
I see a few small issues with the end wall but in theory, it's just an end wall that might be a little bouncy without continuous framing members full height, and the framed roof should hold it's self up. It looks as if the roof was at least sheathed and I didn't see any "collar ties". That & sheathing on the side walls may have been all it needed to live through that storm. I think that was why the wind took it and I don't think I'd condemn the framer just by these pics. The right wall and the gable end are both laying IN the space. I can't make out where the left wall ended up.

 

[EddieWalker]

Where would you put sheathing? It's all windows and a huge door opening.

 

[Diggin It]

I can't speak the engineering, but if I was at that point when I quit for the day, I would have put a bunch of bracing on that.

There was no visible lateral bracing in the end wall. Without see more complete photos, that's why it fell over. More questions... The header has no hurricane clips in it, which could be added later. And the header looks to be grossly under sized. Hummmm

Eddie you know that there are "vulnerable" stages of construction where all the parts to the puzzle are not there yet and wind happens.
I see a few small issues with the end wall but in theory, it's just an end wall that might be a little bouncy without continuous framing members full height, and the framed roof should hold it's self up. It looks as if the roof was at least sheathed and I didn't see any "collar ties". That & sheathing on the side walls may have been all it needed to live through that storm. I think that was why the wind took it and I don't think I'd condemn the framer just by these pics. The right wall and the gable end are both laying IN the space. I can't make out where the left wall ended up.

I'm thinking this is just very, very bad timing. It's obviously no where near finished, so we can't know what the end product would look like. My question is, did the contractor know about the storm potential? If so, they should have done extra temporary bracing. Maybe the storm intensity caught them all off guard?

Certainly not the first building skeleton taken down by high winds.

 

[Deere Dude]

I didn't see any bracing to keep the side walls from being able to spread out because of the weight and torque generated by the roof joists. As a very young rookie I built a 26x40 garage something like that one time with 4/12 pitch roof joists, but I had cables strung from side to side to keep from spreading the walls. I know, should have had trusses but I was tight. My very first project in 1975. I didn't like it and was glad a tornado came and moved it into the field next door.

 

[Diggin It]

As a very young rookie I built a 26x40 garage something like that one time with 4/12 pitch roof joists, but I had cables strung from side to side to keep from spreading the walls. I know, should have had trusses but I was tight.

My current 24x30 garage is similar in that the roof system was stick built on site instead of using trusses, but it does look very similar to trusses with 24' rafters. I plan on copying it for my shed if I decide to build it. I just think the skeleton being discussed wasn't finished before the storm.

 

[ArlyA]

I'm thinking this is just very, very bad timing. It's obviously no where near finished, so we can't know what the end product would look like. My question is, did the contractor know about the storm potential? If so, they should have done extra temporary bracing. Maybe the storm intensity caught them all off guard?
Certainly not the first building skeleton taken down by high winds.

The builder is responsible for his construction and weather they pay attention to the forecast or not, is not the home owners job.. The end wall should have had lateral bracing at this point. They come out as the sheathing goes up.

 

[Oldoak]

I'm thinking this is just very, very bad timing. It's obviously no where near finished, so we can't know what the end product would look like. My question is, did the contractor know about the storm potential? If so, they should have done extra temporary bracing. Maybe the storm intensity caught them all off guard?

Certainly not the first building skeleton taken down by high winds.

I think you "nailed" it!

With all the speculation and armchair engineering eyeing missing this and missing that. Who knows just how far along the construction actually was? How much was yet to be added? Incomplete construction projects such as that are always weaker than the finished product, particularly during storms with high winds.

 

[ovrszd]

No armchair engineering here. If my builder was splicing vertical structural items I would intervene. A properly built skeleton would have had a much better chance of survival.

 

[Diggin It]

The builder is responsible for his construction and weather they pay attention to the forecast or not,

Yes, that's what I said.

 

[s219]

I can't figure out what they were trying to accomplish with that framing. Were they planning to have a bunch of windows on the gable wall? Even if they were, that is a really bad and sloppy way to do it. Nothing makes sense.

Lack of continuous vertical framing is the biggest flaw I see, and it's all over the place. That eave wall would never support the roof load long term without buckling.

The more I look at it, the more I see wrong and the more confused I get. I am thinking that nature did them a favor by blowing that thing down now.

 

[tjkubota93]

I can't figure out what they were trying to accomplish with that framing. Were they planning to have a bunch of windows on the gable wall? Even if they were, that is a really bad and sloppy way to do it. Nothing makes sense.

Lack of continuous vertical framing is the biggest flaw I see, and it's all over the place. That eave wall would never support the roof load long term without buckling.

The more I look at it, the more I see wrong and the more confused I get. I am thinking that nature did them a favor by blowing that thing down now.

Not if they put it back the same as it was! Haha I guess we will see if they learned.

 

[ovrszd]

I can't figure out what they were trying to accomplish with that framing. Were they planning to have a bunch of windows on the gable wall? Even if they were, that is a really bad and sloppy way to do it. Nothing makes sense.

Lack of continuous vertical framing is the biggest flaw I see, and it's all over the place. That eave wall would never support the roof load long term without buckling.

The more I look at it, the more I see wrong and the more confused I get. I am thinking that nature did them a favor by blowing that thing down now.

Yeah, I think Eddie mentioned that favor earlier.

 

[PILOON]

LOL, that contractor had a short bed PU and could not haul longer than 8 ft studs.
He might as well have installed hinges at the 8 ft level.

Also saw that he blocked the spaces between the rafters but then perhaps in your area air circulation in the roof area is not needed but sure is in my climate.
No rafter ties other than toe nailing from what I saw but then I'm not in a tornado zone as perhaps you are not also.

Contractor's wife insisted he be home for dinner no matter what the status of the job.

Hey, Eddy, the door is wide open for you to charge all your travel time over and above your usual rates.
Why not? plumbers and electricians do it.

Actually when I did renovations I was invited to charge my travel when I did work in the city for cottage clients that insisted that I work on their primary city homes.
I also charged (minimal) when I would fetch 'good deals' from suppliers that did not deliver.

 

[sandman2234]

LOL, that contractor had a short bed PU and could not haul longer than 8 ft studs.
He might as well have installed hinges at the 8 ft level.
Contractor's wife insisted he be home for dinner no matter what the status of the job.

I own only long wheelbase pickups, simply for the reason that hauling anything in a truck, should be in a truck not in what is otherwise an open trunk on a Cadillac. I always look at the vehicle a contractor drives when he comes to my house to give me a bid, and if it is a work truck, then it should be a truck, not a glorified grocery getter. The people I hire are will be here to work, not to impress me with their vehicle.
Dinner at times is important, but the job that pays for the dinner might be best paid attention to.
David from jax

 

[ning]

No armchair engineering here. If my builder was splicing vertical structural items I would intervene. A properly built skeleton would have had a much better chance of survival.

IMO they dodged a bullet that it came down when the error was so obvious and the framer's fault.
That needs a redesign... and a different framer.

 

[Diggin It]

Does a two story house have any vertical members that run from the foundation to the gable peak? None I've seen have. The ground floor is built and the second floor is built/stacked on top.

Maybe it's just the pictures, but I see this the same way. Sections stacked on top of each other, partially interlocked, apparently to hold a series of windows resulting is as much window space as possible. Almost a full glass wall. From the pictures we've seen, we don't know what else was going to be added to stiffen the structure and tie it all together.

 

[s219]

Does a two story house have any vertical members that run from the foundation to the gable peak? None I've seen have. The ground floor is built and the second floor is built/stacked on top.

I don't see a floor deck tying the stacked walls together like you'd have with a proper multi-story framing job, and that is the crucial difference. You should never frame a freestanding, load bearing, exterior wall like what was shown in the pictures.

 

[s219]

Maybe it's just the pictures, but I see this the same way. Sections stacked on top of each other, partially interlocked, apparently to hold a series of windows resulting is as much window space as possible. Almost a full glass wall. From the pictures we've seen, we don't know what else was going to be added to stiffen the structure and tie it all together.

Even the "window" framing is all wrong. There should be king and jack studs and headers. I see none, at least not in a proper way. This honestly looks like somebody used up scrap lumber in a haphazard attempt to frame a wall, and ignored all standards and codes.