Front PTO options

[case685]

Hi Guys,
I am looking for the best way to set up a front pto on my tractor to run a 6ft snowblower. I want to do this mechanically as opposed to hydraulically since my tractor is only 35 pto hp.

I don't have mid pto so my options are: electric clutch( preferred ) or gearbox on the rear pto with a drive shaft running to the front. I think the e-clutch is a good option for me since the main engine pulley on my tractor has a machined face with bolts and there is a "tunnel" thru to the front of the tractor to allow for a driveshaft. After looking on the Ogura website I saw several models of e-clutches that looked like they could work...here are the specs of the 3 I'm looking at: #526115 rated for 150 ft lbs of torque, 1.125" bore, single B groove pulley 5.37" diameter....#523967 rated for 175 ft lbs, 1.125" bore, dual B groove pulley 4" diameter....#528005 rated at 200 ft lbs, 1.4375" bore, triple A groove pulley 4.56" diameter. All 3 are rated to 3600 rpm, there is larger one rated for 250 ft lbs torque but I don't think I need to go that high.

One other thing I'm wondering about....my tractor is 41 engine hp so does that mean by running the clutch off the engine that I would gain 6 hp?

Looking forward to any and all advice and/or opinions on this.

Gerald

 

[texasranger556]

41 hp at 2500 RPMs is 86 lb ft of torque. You would have to figure out how fast the snowblower needs to spin to decide what size pulleys you'd need.

How do you plan to drive the snowblower? To allow the blower to move up and down you'll need more than just belts...a shaft with universal joint in line with the pivot is fairly common.

 

[case685]

As far as driving the blower my plan is to use a standard pto shaft. I intend to make a 3pt hitch for the front of the tractor as well.

Good point on blower speed!...have to admit I hadn't considered that...Do you think it would be better to increase pulley diameter on the tractor side or would some type of gear reduction on the blower be the way to go?

So at 86 lbs of torque looks like the smallest of the 3 clutches would work, my one concern with it though is the single pulley. I'm no expert when it comes to pulleys but the years I've spent around equipment has me thinking a single belt isn't adequate for driving a blower that size.

 

[zzvyb6]

What about a forward running rear mounted blower ? I gave up on rear mounted reverse operation as well as front mounted forward operation blowers. Too hard to steer with a stiff neck and too slow. Started with a front plow and going back to it asap. Plow is so much faster and can widen the windrow at any time I want. I've watched a few videos on YouTube about rear mounted forward travel blowers and they look like a good method if a plow won't work for you. I replaced my 800' driveway with concrete and a plow blade with a plastic scraper is better than sliced bread. I can run in high gear, less garage space, and friendly to my safety glasses.

 

[Dave M7040]

Hi Guys,
I am looking for the best way to set up a front pto on my tractor to run a 6ft snowblower. I want to do this mechanically as opposed to hydraulically since my tractor is only 35 pto hp.

I don't have mid pto so my options are: electric clutch( preferred ) or gearbox on the rear pto with a drive shaft running to the front. I think the e-clutch is a good option for me since the main engine pulley on my tractor has a machined face with bolts and there is a "tunnel" thru to the front of the tractor to allow for a driveshaft. After looking on the Ogura website I saw several models of e-clutches that looked like they could work...here are the specs of the 3 I'm looking at: #526115 rated for 150 ft lbs of torque, 1.125" bore, single B groove pulley 5.37" diameter....#523967 rated for 175 ft lbs, 1.125" bore, dual B groove pulley 4" diameter....#528005 rated at 200 ft lbs, 1.4375" bore, triple A groove pulley 4.56" diameter. All 3 are rated to 3600 rpm, there is larger one rated for 250 ft lbs torque but I don't think I need to go that high.

One other thing I'm wondering about....my tractor is 41 engine hp so does that mean by running the clutch off the engine that I would gain 6 hp?

Looking forward to any and all advice and/or opinions on this.

Gerald

Your in the right Canadian territory. Smyth Welding.
Just to give you ideas.
Neat heavy duty front blower arrangements run from the rear pto.
SNOWBLOWERS made in Ontario, SMYTH WELDING & MACHINE SHOP 519-529-7212

In this image "D" shows the stacked gear boxes to send the pto to the front with the correct rotation direction. Getting the correct rotation where you are taking a blower designed for rear operation and moving it to the front is a big challenge.

This image is a home made job to both reverse the pto and send the power to the front of the machine.

You will not gain 6 HP. Every connection from the engine involves losses from U joint friction etc

Your existing blower will need to run at 540 rpm which is much below engine speed and will require some form of speed reduction.

Your tractor is too small to run an inverted blower like mine.

Dave M7040

 

[redman135]

If you run directly off the engine you will need a gear box to reduce speed to 540 or 1000 rpm input revs at the snowblower.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

For that little tractor, you will be MUCH better off, putting a 20 or so HP gas motor right on a blower, and then mounting it on the front of your tractor. (or loader arms)

OR, you can buy a blower already made up that way...

SR

 

[texasranger556]

If you don't already have a snowblower, I'd look for one designed for front mount. For example one for my JD 4400 is designed to run from the mid PTO which is around 2100 RPM, but would have to check if it's the same rotation direction as the engine to work with your proposed belt idea.

I would think adding 3 point arms to the front of your tractor and using a 3 point snowblower is going to make your rig fairly long.

 

[msb1766]

Take a look at Erskine they have a rear pto driven front mount snowblower and a 3 point hitch rear pto pull snowblower.
Front Mount Snowblower | Snow Equipment | Snowblowers | Tractor Attachments | Erskine Attachments LLC

3-Point PTO Rear Pull Snowblower | Snow Equipment | Snowblowers | Tractor Attachments | Erskine Attachments LLC

 

[case685]

Thanks for all the replies, plenty of food for thought.

I'm including a few pics of my blower and a "mockup" of how it might look attached to a 3pt on the front of my tractor. Please don't laugh too hard when you see the wooden skid shoes I added ....they are temporary until I get around to buying or making permanent ones. I had 3 loads of stone put on my driveway last year and the small shoes on the back of it just weren't doing the job of keeping the blower high enough to avoid throwing/pushing stones no matter how I adjusted it.
Anyway, it is an older unit from Japan, not as robustly made as a lot of the N/A models but it is a good little machine. That fact that it is lighter and not as deep as most blowers it's size- it's just under 6ft wide- I think makes it a good candidate for a front mount. I have a pair of 3pt arms like the one in the picture that I plan to use, they are a bit long though so likely I will shorten them.

After digesting the latest info you guys have posted I believe I will be going with a gearbox on my rear pto and driveshaft to the front. It was my least favorite option as I didn't want to give up clearance under the tractor. I like to take logs from the woods and drag them to the yard so a drive shaft could be a problem there. Some kind of an undercarriage that could be removed quickly could be a way to go but would complicate the build...or I may have to switch back to Ag tires!

Dave thanks for the link and those pics, that's quite the blower you have...I am wondering what the purpose of the blade with hydraulic lift on the back is.

 

[aczlan]

Do you need a full 3 point on the front? I have a front mount Loftness that has about 2 foot long lower links on the blower side and then a hydraulic cylinder that goes up at a 45 degree angle for the top link to lift the blower.
It has two gearboxes on the back to turn the PTO around and send it to the front with a 2 piece driveshaft to get to the front of the tractor, then another driveshaft to go to the blower.

Aaron Z

 

[Bavarian]

Thanks for all the replies, plenty of food for thought.

I'm including a few pics of my blower and a "mockup" of how it might look attached to a 3pt on the front of my tractor. Please don't laugh too hard when you see the wooden skid shoes I added ....they are temporary until I get around to buying or making permanent ones. I had 3 loads of stone put on my driveway last year and the small shoes on the back of it just weren't doing the job of keeping the blower high enough to avoid throwing/pushing stones no matter how I adjusted it.
Anyway, it is an older unit from Japan, not as robustly made as a lot of the N/A models but it is a good little machine. That fact that it is lighter and not as deep as most blowers it's size- it's just under 6ft wide- I think makes it a good candidate for a front mount. I have a pair of 3pt arms like the one in the picture that I plan to use, they are a bit long though so likely I will shorten them.

After digesting the latest info you guys have posted I believe I will be going with a gearbox on my rear pto and driveshaft to the front. It was my least favorite option as I didn't want to give up clearance under the tractor. I like to take logs from the woods and drag them to the yard so a drive shaft could be a problem there. Some kind of an undercarriage that could be removed quickly could be a way to go but would complicate the build...or I may have to switch back to Ag tires!

Dave thanks for the link and those pics, that's quite the blower you have...I am wondering what the purpose of the blade with hydraulic lift on the back is.

You didn't state which tractor you want to put it on.
Check out Zuidberg. They sell full sets of front 3pt/Pto systems.
There is another canadian company they build front systems, I just can't remember their name.

 

[case685]

My tractor is an Iseki TA357, a grey market machine, very similar to a MF1160 which was built by Iseki for Massey. I've had it for 12 years. It came with tall ag/rice tires but I had to replace them. I put on turfs that came from a MF1160, been very happy with them but the tractor does sit a lot lower.

I know there are front mount designs that have a dedicated undercarriage and if I could be sure they would be easy to take on and off I might seriously consider them. For that purpose it seems a front 3pt would be the best way to go. I would really like to be able to drop the blower quickly if I need to. I will check out the Loftness and Zuidberg's systems. I am on a budget though and want to take on the challenge and fun of fabricating my own system. I have some time to think about it since I cant start a project like this until the weather warms up.

 

[Dave M7040]

With any type of blower you end up leaving snow in front of steps and garage doors.

With the rear blade I have, I back right to the door (or if I have a remote control for the door,) open the door and back so my rear blade is just inside the garage. Then I full the snow forward about 6 feet.

Raise the blade and back up to catch the pile left by the blade.
My brothers nearby never have to shovel.

I also use the blade for landscaping and spreading gravel. It is 1/2" plate with a 4 x 4 x 1/4" angle stiffener.
I also added trailer wheels where I can adjust the blower height hydraulically to avoid digging up gravel and sod before it is frozen.

I am 72 now and made do with variety of old tractors and walk behinds until now
Good luck with your fabrication and ask many questions as you will always get good help here.
Dave M7040

 

[case685]

Thanks Dave, this site is fantastic and I definitely will continue to access it for advice and information. Also planning to document and post on the build as I go along.

 

[aczlan]

Here are a couple of pictures of how Loftness set up their system (which I modified to work on our L3830:
Front, blower hitch:


Middle under tractor:




Rear gearboxes:


I can take other pictures or explain if you have any questions.

Aaron Z

 

[Dave M7040]

There is another canadian company they build front systems, I just can't remember their name.

See my post #5 in this thread. Smyth Welding

Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

Here are a couple of pictures of how Loftness set up their system (which I modified to work on our L3830:
Front, blower hitch:
View attachment 593204

Middle under tractor:
View attachment 593205

View attachment 593206

Rear gearboxes:
View attachment 593208

I can take other pictures or explain if you have any questions.

Aaron Z

Aaron
How much was the Loftness rear pto gear box?

From your last photo I cannot tell if it is the same as the two gearbox arrangement in my post 5.

Dave M7040

 

[aczlan]

Aaron
How much was the Loftness rear pto gear box?

From your last photo I cannot tell if it is the same as the two gearbox arrangement in my post 5.

Dave M7040

I suspect it is similar to yours, there are a pair of U-joints welded together, then a pair of right angle gear boxes which share the output shaft of one gearbox with input shaft of the other gearbox.
It sandwiches the drawbar to attach it, unlike yours (which as I recall) connects to the top link holes. That leaves the 3 point hitch free for my weight barrel.
We bought the whole setup from someone who had purchased a large New Holland tractor at an auction from a municipality. He wanted to use it to pull a Batwing bush hog, and had no real interest in the snow blower. The catch was that we had to remove it from the tractor and unbolt the frame in his garage with hand tools.
We were the first ones who were still interested after finding that it still had to be removed from the tractor.
A good friend of mine and I got it done in an afternoon and dragged it onto a trailer.
I just used the snow blower on the back for the first winter and adapted the frame for the next winter.

Aaron Z

 

[KWentling]

I contacted Zuidberg for a front PTO and 3-point for my M7060. Dealer price for the set up was just over $7000. Too rich for me.

You didn't state which tractor you want to put it on.
Check out Zuidberg. They sell full sets of front 3pt/Pto systems.
There is another canadian company they build front systems, I just can't remember their name.

The 3 I know of are Smyth, Erskine, and Shulte.