Your last generator Maintenance Run

[ning]

I guess I am not understanding the issue with the nuetral and ground being bonded at the generator when the generator is powering a house and the house nuetral is bonded to ground at the house breaker panel. Is the concern that the generator sitting on the ground is creating a second ground path through the frame? I would have a hard time thinking that the ground and nuetral bond inside the generator is going to come loose if that is the concern.

I was curious after seeing your post and found this:
Bonded Neutral vs Floating Neutral Generators - How to Avoid Tripping a Generator With a Bonded Neutral

 

[shaeff]

That's a big negative there & not in the voltage sense. If neutral & ground are bonded anywhere on the generator, they are connected everywhere on the generator.

Unless each outlet is somehow isolated, bonding on your little 15@ outlet will also be shorting neutral to ground for your 50@ outlet. Only with wire rated at 15@, not 50@. Also that neutral or ground wouldnt be protected by a breaker (not that you ever should have a fuse or breaker on ground).

You would need to remove every neutral to ground connection on the generator. I'm not completely certain of the implications on doing that though.

You could just make a plug to connect the ground pin to neutral for your 50@ socket & plug that in to bond for stand alone operation.

Crap, I don’t know why I didn’t realize that. I’m now thinking that a knife switch of sorts is the only way to bond/unbond the neutral. Still cheaper than a transfer switch near the panel.

The way this genset is wired, it has 4 wires consign from the head. Black, red, white (turns to orange) and green. Right before the control panel, the orange and green are spliced together. What I’ll have to end up doing is breaking that splice and rerouting the neutral to a switching device. For now I should just be able to break the bond and use for the house and nothing else.

Once the bond is broken I’ll have to label it near the starter switch and pull the grounds that connect to neutrals from the outlets to fully isolate and make a proper floating neutral setup. What a pain!

Thanks for your input, you just saved me from having to use a voltmeter to figure out my mistake!

 

[daugen]

I was curious after seeing your post and found this:
Bonded Neutral vs Floating Neutral Generators - How to Avoid Tripping a Generator With a Bonded Neutral

that was helpful for me. Seems the real issue is whether one trips a GFCI circuit.
I asked a question earlier and the answers went over my head. Likely where they will stay.

One thing I learned was buy a portable gen with GFCI panel protection. I wonder if my Champion inverter gen has that, probably not.

 

[aczlan]

I should make up a propane torch head with a three foot hose and some kind of clip at the end. It is always a two person operation to hold a torch into the intake and the other pulls on the starter.

Here is a $10 4' extension hose for a disposable 1# cylinder: https://www.amazon.com/DOZYANT-Distribution-Extension-Assembly-Throwaway/dp/B06Y678C2P/

And a $20 12' adapter to connect a torch that would normally connect to a disposable cylinder to a 20# tank: https://www.amazon.com/DOZYANT-Converter-Replacement-Certified-Appliances/dp/B01N1H6LVD/

I guess I am not understanding the issue with the nuetral and ground being bonded at the generator when the generator is powering a house and the house nuetral is bonded to ground at the house breaker panel. Is the concern that the generator sitting on the ground is creating a second ground path through the frame? I would have a hard time thinking that the ground and nuetral bond inside the generator is going to come loose if that is the concern.

The issue is that if somehow the link between the two at the generator becomes an "easier path" (electrically speaking), you could have 120v on the frame of the generator (and anything else connected to the ground wire) as the power will go over that rather than the neutral like it should.
Here is a video showing power going through the ground rather than the neutral because they were connected together in more than one place:

Aaron Z

 

[3930dave]

Where did I say to run it indoors?? DOH!! I didn't even imply it...

It's in doors to keep it warm so it will start easier! Dang, I'd think anyone and everyone would have known that is why I brought it in!

SR

R - not suggesting you directly said it..... yeah, maybe I'm being overly picky, but it's truly amazing what conclusions people come to, concerning statements that are even slightly open to interpretation.

One of the benefits of light-weight generators is it's often easier and more effective to bring them to the heat, rather than the other way around :thumbsup:.

About 2 decades back, after a really bad ice-storm followed by very cold weather here, one guy decided to deal with the power outage by bringing his propane bbq inside the house, turning it on full blast and sending everyone to bed for the night.

Not at an attempted mass-suicide..... just a staggeringly low comprehension of CO danger......

Buy a fireman a case of beer...... the beer will run out before they run out of stories like above......

Rgds, D.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I always just pointed the torch into the carb throat. I wonder , with a hose, if this creates a hazard in case of a backflash in the carb.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Heat guns work really good, and HF has them cheap...

SR

 

[goeduck]

I was curious after seeing your post and found this:
Bonded Neutral vs Floating Neutral Generators - How to Avoid Tripping a Generator With a Bonded Neutral

Very good article. Since my small generator has a bonded nuetral but is not GFCI protected and I have a 2 pole transfer switch it sounds like there is no issue (per the table in the link). Clear as mud.

 

[3930dave]

I always just pointed the torch into the carb throat. I wonder , with a hose, if this creates a hazard in case of a backflash in the carb.

IIRC, there were anti-flash back fittings that you could put inline with an OA torch head..... might be money well spent if there is a propane version.....

Rgds, D.

 

[cqaigy2]

I always just pointed the torch into the carb throat. I wonder , with a hose, if this creates a hazard in case of a backflash in the carb.

I'd be surprised if back would take place in the hose.