Your last generator Maintenance Run

[Chilliwack Murray]

Back flash valves are required on torches that mix oxygen and fuel since it is possible to force oxygen backward into the fuel hose if the fuel tank pressure is low or there is a pop in the torch head.

They serve no purpose on a single fuel torch. Since there is no oxygen to get forced back there is no way for the fuel to burn in the hose.

This is of course assuming the hose is coupled directly to the torch and there is no Venturi mixing air in.

A long time ago when we bought our first house I got a rototiller for free with a busted up carb to put in a garden and redo the lawn. I couldn’t afford a carb so I rototilled 1/4 acre with a propane plumbers torch and a hose jammed down the carb. Not sure why those were referred to as the good old days.

 

[aczlan]

Very good article. Since my small generator has a bonded nuetral but is not GFCI protected and I have a 2 pole transfer switch it sounds like there is no issue (per the table in the link). Clear as mud.

Their table does not match with code requirements. Code says that if you have a bonded neutral, you need a 3 pole transfer switch. If you have a unbonded neutral, you need a 2 pole transfer switch.

Aaron Z

 

[daugen]

Their table does not match with code requirements. Code says that if you have a bonded neutral, you need a 3 pole transfer switch. If you have a unbonded neutral, you need a 2 pole transfer switch.

Aaron Z

I admit this is far over my head...what I really want to know is what not to do as an operator, I don't fool with AC.
Always wondered if I should get one of those receptacle testers, but then with GFCI's not sure how that works regarding ground.
I think a lot of us get ground and neutral mixed up anyway...I mean if it works on two, you don't really need the third right?

say my little Champion inverter gen does NOT have a panel wired into a GFCI, anything I should be careful about? Like running wet extension cords?

 

[3930dave]

I admit this is far over my head...what I really want to know is what not to do as an operator, I don't fool with AC.
Always wondered if I should get one of those receptacle testers, but then with GFCI's not sure how that works regarding ground.
I think a lot of us get ground and neutral mixed up anyway...I mean if it works on two, you don't really need the third right?

say my little Champion inverter gen does NOT have a panel wired into a GFCI, anything I should be careful about? Like running wet extension cords?

There are many plug-in GFI options.

GFCI Plugs - Extension Cords - The Home Depot

So, you can add them to just about anything :thumbsup:.

Water makes the danger worse, but the risk of current to ground is always there. I've read various accounts (likely on TBN, but not this thread) of people getting zapped during current-to-ground situations.... often involving older metal-cased tools outdoors, but it can happen under many conditions, indoors or out.

What the GFI is watching for, is current to ground, and will trip at very low levels. You DON'T want to be part of the circuit that trips a breaker at 15 amps to ground - much lower levels of current than that can be fatal.

Good flow of discussion here...... reminded me that my older gens don't have it, and examples like those above are good/low cost ways to plug in GFI protection. Considering the unpredictable ways a portable generator gets used, adding a GFCI to an older one is a good idea.

Rgds, D.

 

[aczlan]

What the GFI is watching for, is current to ground, and will trip at very low levels. You DON'T want to be part of the circuit that trips a breaker at 15 amps to ground - much lower levels of current than that can be fatal.

Correction, a GFCI is watching how much power goes out on the hot side and making sure that a matching amount of power comes in on the neutral side. If those get out of balance, then it trips.
The most common way to take it out of balance is voltage going from hot to ground, but it could also go to another neutral.

All that it looks for is to make sure that there is an equal amount of power going out on the hot wire and coming back in on the neutral wire.
That is why you can use it to upgrade an older circuit that does not have ground to 3 wire outlets.

Aaron Z

 

[3930dave]

Good points Aaron. I jumped ahead to the common fault, and skipped that detail.

I'm having trouble picturing another neutral in most household generator situations, but maybe I haven't thought that through far enough......

Talk of GFI had me thinking about a problem my neighbour had with one...... behaved like an open circuit (for the rest of the branch circuit), but was just a faulty GFI receptacle.... this article has some interesting points, esp. concerning the # of installed GFCI not functioning properly:

How GFCIs Work | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine

N.B. ^ especially if you live in Florida !

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

35 years managing rentals and a lot of service calls tied to GFCI...

Half were legit in that the GFCI functioned properly... the rest were nuisance calls... defective GFCI... especially prone are those in outdoor locations and all with proper bell boxes.


The GFCI in one building were always a problem as many regular outlets were wired after the GFCI so instead of going to the circuit breaker box looking the tripped breaker it was hide and go seek... some bathroom protected had the GFCI in the garage.

 

[aczlan]

35 years managing rentals and a lot of service calls tied to GFCI...

Half were legit in that the GFCI functioned properly... the rest were nuisance calls... defective GFCI... especially prone are those in outdoor locations and all with proper bell boxes.


The GFCI in one building were always a problem as many regular outlets were wired after the GFCI so instead of going to the circuit breaker box looking the tripped breaker it was hide and go seek... some bathroom protected had the GFCI in the garage.

As I recall, isn't the GFCI supposed to be in the same room as the protected outlets, or be a GFCI breaker in the panel box?

Aaron Z

 

[cqaigy2]

As I recall, isn't the GFCI supposed to be in the same room as the protected outlets, or be a GFCI breaker in the panel box?

Aaron Z

Don't know if it's supposed to, but it's not uncommon to have a GFCI in a bathroom connected to outlet that is outside.

 

[3930dave]

Valves for OA are common, but they do exist for propane (and other gases) too.

Flashback arrestor - Wikipedia

"The flashback arrestors are suitable for most technical gases (fuel gases) such as acetylene, hydrogen, methane, propane, propylene and butane as well as oxygen and compressed air. "

Frantz Art Glass : Propane Flashback Arrestor

Rgds, D.