Propane Whole House Generators, Warning.

[not2old]

My parents told me about that and that there was an ice delivery to the door as well. I do remember the milk deliveries and the paper routes.

I remember the ice and milk being delivered by horse and wagon in the fifties and didn't live in the sticks. Times have changed.

 

[MossRoad]

So is it someone else's fault that he bought propane instead of diesel? Do you blame a car dealership if you buy a gas truck and later wish you bought a diesel?

So ignorance is everyone else's fault? Its not like the burn rates for that generator are some great secret...the info is readily available on the internet. It's pretty clear his biggest beef is that he was going to run out of propane...HE INSTALLED THE WRONG SIZE TANK FOR HIS INTENDED PURPOSE. He even complains about not being able to get more propane after a major storm! Newsflash...that's what happens after a major storm. Again, should have bought a bigger tank so he wouldn't be in this situation. He lives on the Gulf Coast for goodness sake, so these things shouldn't be a surprise.

This guy your friend or something? Because he never ever remotely says anything like this. He never says "I should have known", or "I failed to research this"...he blames everyone but himself. Good grief...

As for the service, we are only hearing one side of the story. From the sounds of if, this customer probably burnt some bridges. And in the weeks before a major storm, thousands of people are trying to get service on their generators, which VERY likely contributed to the poor support. Despite what some apparently think here, parts don't grow on trees. They often have to be ordered, and around storm time, parts are hard to come by. Anyhow, that's all I have to say on the matter. Maybe 21 years in the Marine Corps has made me a little intolerant of people not taking responsibility for their own decisions. Out.

Perhaps you should have read the comments under the video.

 

[MossRoad]

I remember the ice and milk being delivered by horse and wagon in the fifties and didn't live in the sticks. Times have changed.

We didn't have ice, but we did have a milkman until the late 60's.

 

[TheMan419]

If it's warm out, we run our little 3500 enough to keep the fridge and freezer cold.

If it's cold out, we put the food outside and run the furnace enough to keep the pipes from freezing. It can just barely run the furnace.

Our little genny isn't up to running the well, so we try to have bottled on hand and fill buckets and coolers when bad weather is predicted.

We have gotten by without power by just using a camp stove and the fireplace, but it's easier with the genny. We have only been without for ~2 weeks after Irene (had to wait for a pole transformer feeding our trunk from the next town over) that prompted us getting the generator. Morale definitely took a big hit on that one, and we had to throw away a lot of food but I don't think we ever felt our lives were in danger.

Yep I have lived on well water the majority of my life. When a storm is predicted I fill the tub with water. Even now that I have a generator that can run the well I do it out of habit.

We have horses so I need on the order of 70 gallons of water per day (more than double that in the heat of summer) so I have to be able to run the well.

Thankfully I live far far away from hurricane land. So even after a major storm finding gasoline is easy for me.

From a cost vs morale perspective I will run the genny enough to keep the house warm, not just the pipes from freezing. During that time the fridge/freezer can be powered too so no worries there.

Main issue we would have in a long outage is the stove is electric and we do not have that tied into the generator. So we might end up having to get a hot plate or something to cook on. In the summer I would just grill for every meal.

Knock on wood at our current home we have had 1 outage in 3 years that lasted more than an hour.

 

[Oldoak]

I remember the ice and milk being delivered by horse and wagon in the fifties and didn't live in the sticks. Times have changed.

As do I. Same situation. I can remember the last house on our block that changed to an electric refrigerator. Even had a horse drawn wagon come around once a week selling fresh vegetables during the Summer months. All us kids used to run out to pet his horse when he made his stops.

Life was harder back then, but much simpler.

Back on the subject of propane. Just had propane delivered today, $1.799 per Gal.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

We didn't have ice, but we did have a milkman until the late 60's.

We had a milkman too, BUT it was to "pickup" the milk, NOT to deliver it!

SR

 

[Garandman]

Its probably not wise to base your decisions from videos posted by idiots on youtube. I mean, look at this clown...he has more money in RVs than he does in his house! And, he puts in 250 gallon storage tank for a whole house generator? Good grief...if posting a "warning" thread, please provide something more substantial than a stupid youtube video which provides nothing but anecdotal evidence.

My comment on that video was "So, where do you live in Florida?"

 

[RoyKing]

Actually I enjoyed a video for Honda 3000 inverter by guy who full time lives off the grid in Florida everglade's. He puts more hours his machine than anybody I've seen, and his service routine of oil and plug changes are well documented, he been there years.

 

[Travelover]

We didn't have ice, but we did have a milkman until the late 60's.

We did, too. Several of my siblings look a lot like him.

 

[JasperFrank]

If you need the clean power all you need to do is plug a UPS into the power supply and then plug your device into the UPS. A good UPS will clean the power right up and you can run a computers or anything else off a dirty generator using that technique.

VERY GOOD POINT about the UPS and dirty Generators! Found that out the HARD WAY.

 

[dnw64]

I haven't read all the responses but have a few comments on the video.

1. The guy obviously did not inform himself before setting up his system. I would never consider using a 250 gallon tank for a 17Kw genset. We have a 500 for our 20Kw and while we have not yet had an issue, I've been thinking maybe I should have put in a 1000. Main reason I didn't initially is that they charge you extra if you don't use the "expected" amount per year based on tank size.

2. His lack of understanding of the "usable capacity" of a propane tank is further revelation of his lack of research. The reason the last 20% is (mostly) unusable is because of evaporation. As you no doubt know, propane is stored as a liquid but used as a gas. That only happens as a result of evap, and evap is limited by the surface area. With a horizontal cylinder, when very "full" (80%) or low (20%) there is no longer enough surface area to evap sufficient volume of gaseous propane to provide combustion. Obviously those are starting points - if you have a 1000 gallon tank running a 6k genset you will be able to go considerably below the 20% level. There are charts that show evap rates.

3. The biggest advantage of propane (to me) that he didn't even mention, is that it doesn't go bad, and is easy to store in relatively large volumes. He talks about the fact you can't go down to the local gas station and buy a 5 gallon bucket of propane, but if there are widespread power outages the gas station will not be able to dispense anything. There's no way I'm going to store enough gas or diesel to last for a week of constant running and "hope" I need it. The occasion is going to be rare, and that fuel is likely going to sit for years. No thanks.

4. If you are in a potentially long-term power outage, DON'T run your genset 24/7! There's (likely) nothing you need that has to be on ALL THE TIME! Unless you have a medically life-threatening condition that requires power, in which case I suggest you have a few 1000 gallon tanks and a small genset that powers just the essentials...

Somewhat related to the conversation, our most recent genset purchase was a Cummins. Same model as in the video but 20Kw. One of the primary reasons for choosing it over the Generac and Kohler were its lower burn rate...

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Last time the power was out here for a full day, a gas station 4 miles from here had a generator running and was selling gas.

I bet that wasn't the only one either! They can sell a LOT of gas when the power is out and they know it!

BTW, I've NEVER had ANY diesel go bad!

SR

 

[grsthegreat]

Funny thing is the number of people i give bids to for whole house systems, there are quite a few that figure out price is too high for something that they may or may not need. Amazing to see how many top end snow machines and razors i see in their garages....that never get used much either. Its all how a person feels he needs when the grid is down. I would say 90 percent of my clients have a deep water well so to them it is worth it. If i was on city gas, water and power i wouldnt install one either.

 

[goeduck]

I remember the ice and milk being delivered by horse and wagon in the fifties and didn't live in the sticks. Times have changed.

We have one of these ice chests in similar condition as this google picture out in my shop that I coincidently told my wife last weekend we need to bring into the house.

 

[goeduck]

Last time the power was out here for a full day, a gas station 4 miles from here had a generator running and was selling gas.

I bet that wasn't the only one either! They can sell a LOT of gas when the power is out and they know it!

BTW, I've NEVER had ANY diesel go bad!

SR

And they have a gas generator and a BIG fuel tank?

 

[MossRoad]

Yep I have lived on well water the majority of my life. When a storm is predicted I fill the tub with water. Even now that I have a generator that can run the well I do it out of habit.

We have horses so I need on the order of 70 gallons of water per day (more than double that in the heat of summer) so I have to be able to run the well.

Thankfully I live far far away from hurricane land. So even after a major storm finding gasoline is easy for me.

From a cost vs morale perspective I will run the genny enough to keep the house warm, not just the pipes from freezing. During that time the fridge/freezer can be powered too so no worries there.

Main issue we would have in a long outage is the stove is electric and we do not have that tied into the generator. So we might end up having to get a hot plate or something to cook on. In the summer I would just grill for every meal.

Knock on wood at our current home we have had 1 outage in 3 years that lasted more than an hour.

You have I&M? We have I&M and I have to say they are pretty darn reliable. If we ever move to our property, it'll be NIPSCO. I've had no experience with them other than everyone out there telling me how expensive they are.

We also have a wood stove, so heat isn't an issue with us, but water and flushing the toilet are high on our list of creature comforts. :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

I haven't read all the responses but have a few comments on the video.

1. The guy obviously did not inform himself before setting up his system. I would never consider using a 250 gallon tank for a 17Kw genset. We have a 500 for our 20Kw and while we have not yet had an issue, I've been thinking maybe I should have put in a 1000. Main reason I didn't initially is that they charge you extra if you don't use the "expected" amount per year based on tank size.

2. His lack of understanding of the "usable capacity" of a propane tank is further revelation of his lack of research. The reason the last 20% is (mostly) unusable is because of evaporation. As you no doubt know, propane is stored as a liquid but used as a gas. That only happens as a result of evap, and evap is limited by the surface area. With a horizontal cylinder, when very "full" (80%) or low (20%) there is no longer enough surface area to evap sufficient volume of gaseous propane to provide combustion. Obviously those are starting points - if you have a 1000 gallon tank running a 6k genset you will be able to go considerably below the 20% level. There are charts that show evap rates.

3. The biggest advantage of propane (to me) that he didn't even mention, is that it doesn't go bad, and is easy to store in relatively large volumes. He talks about the fact you can't go down to the local gas station and buy a 5 gallon bucket of propane, but if there are widespread power outages the gas station will not be able to dispense anything. There's no way I'm going to store enough gas or diesel to last for a week of constant running and "hope" I need it. The occasion is going to be rare, and that fuel is likely going to sit for years. No thanks.

4. If you are in a potentially long-term power outage, DON'T run your genset 24/7! There's (likely) nothing you need that has to be on ALL THE TIME! Unless you have a medically life-threatening condition that requires power, in which case I suggest you have a few 1000 gallon tanks and a small genset that powers just the essentials...

Somewhat related to the conversation, our most recent genset purchase was a Cummins. Same model as in the video but 20Kw. One of the primary reasons for choosing it over the Generac and Kohler were its lower burn rate...

Just to be clear, the guy never said he ran it 24/7. It's a 24/7 standby generator. The longest he ran it was 8 hours at a time. That's why he only had 51 hours on it after almost a week of running it about 8 hours a day and using his RV diesel generator the rest of the time. And after 51 hours, he only had about 31 hours of propane left in his tank at minimal load.

 

[goeduck]

We have horses so I need on the order of 70 gallons of water per day (more than double that in the heat of summer) so I have to be able to run the well.

We are fortunate in that one of our cattle properties has an artesian well that feeds the water tanks with about 5 PSI. The other has an irrigation ditch on a hillside that is fed from a siphon off of a local river serving up about 15 psi. No electricity required on either.

 

[PSDStu]

Cost about $1000 US at Lowe痴 right? And is yours the fuel injected model?

No the XT8000E is no longer carried at Lowes. It has worked very well for me, YMMV.

 

[TheMan419]

You have I&M? We have I&M and I have to say they are pretty darn reliable. If we ever move to our property, it'll be NIPSCO. I've had no experience with them other than everyone out there telling me how expensive they are.

We also have a wood stove, so heat isn't an issue with us, but water and flushing the toilet are high on our list of creature comforts. :laughing:

Yes I&M here too. We are on a circuit w only 6 houses. It has been very reliable.