YM 1700 hard starting

[B man]

YM 1700, new head gasket, new 2kw starter, will only start with wide open throttle (sometimes) usually with a little ether. What in Samhill is going on with it? TY!

 

[winston1]

Likely low compression. You are going to bust your piston lands with the either if you haven't already. It is a no no with these little engines.

 

[B man]

Just about what I figured, burns some oil, but purrs like a kitten when it warms up. Saw where one guy was using a diesel/gasoline mix to start his. So I guess I’ll have to tear into it deeper than I wanted but it is a handy little machine to have around. Thanks for the info.

 

[normde2001]

You are supposed to start with wide open throttle. No ether. Can we assume you have done all op maint, fresh fuel, fiuel filter, air filter, bled fuel lines?

 

[California]

The owner manual says start it at 100% throttle. So that's not an issue. Do you see a lot of white vapor (fuel) when it's cranking but won't fire?

If the head was off, did you verify that the valves seal properly, and now, are you sure the valve lash is set correctly?

Done all the maintenance suggested by Norm?

Does the ThermoStart heat the intake manifold properly?

If no other cause is found then this may well be broken rings/pistons as a consequence of ether. Time for a teardown.

 

[careyo63]

Throttle wide open isn't usually necessary. Never had to on my 2000. I don't think I ever have started it wide open come think of it. But were I think your at is pulling a injector or both. Esp. if all the Maint. was done. 1. Are you getting fuel to it- Injector. 2 What does the spray pattern look like. 3. If 1-2 is good then your running a compression test. I think your going to find low compression..............

 

[Jtullis13]

I agree with everyone else. Ether is a big no no for these machines. Though the manual says WOT for starting, most of them don't need to be. As per California, what is the color of your exhaust after it is warmed up? That will give us a better idea of what is going on. Carey had a good suggestion on the injector spray pattern too, and more than likely you have low compression which is probably the culprit from the beginning and now is just going to get worse.

 

[normde2001]

Yanmar engineers have obviously determined that WOT gives the proper air/fuel mixture for starting. Why fight it?

 

[winston1]

I don't fight it, but my experience with diesels in "good " condition has proven wide open throttle may not be necessary. I just don't like that wide open throttle with cold oil on crank up.

 

[bmaverick]

YM 1700, new head gasket, new 2kw starter, will only start with wide open throttle (sometimes) usually with a little ether. What in Samhill is going on with it? TY!

It's winter. Hard starting is common with a regular setup and the machine sitting outside with no enclosure (shed) around it. Yes, wide open in temps below 25F is common place. BUT, it's only to start it. In moments to minutes later, you are scaling back the throttle little-by-little.

Now, I've learned from the first hard winter up here. I have a 3-sided shed and have the CRC diesel treatment in the tank for winter running. This way, the diesel isn't going to gel up due to the low temps. I don't have to do a WOT, only 3/4 throttle now for starting.

Before my JD-850 died (aka Yanmar YM2500), I had replaced the old tech solenoid starter with a 2kw Offset Gear Reduction version. WOW, what a difference! And less to ever go wrong. And it only costed $99+free shipping back in 2013. If the YM2610 ever needs a new starter, I'm going the same route again. Just like your started setup. The OE company for Yanmar also made these starters for Nissan and Mazda. They went from solenoid types to the OGR types.

You did mention though one thing. A 'new head gasket'. I had a truck diesel mechanic who worked on my JD-850. Replaced a wrapped head ... BUT, inadvertently he swapped injectors 2 & 3 lines on the install. The engine would only stay running with full throttle all the time. Needless to say, that and the bent governor rod blew the engine in time. Sooooooooo, check your fuel lines to verify they are indeed going to the correct injectors.

 

[normde2001]

I don't fight it, but my experience with diesels in "good " condition has proven wide open throttle may not be necessary. I just don't like that wide open throttle with cold oil on crank up.

Point being, guys continue to complain it will only start in WOT. . . . .:confused3:

 

[winston1]

Point being, guys continue to complain it will only start in WOT. . . . .:confused3:

If wide open is required to start then put her wide open. :thumbsup:

 

[Jtullis13]

If wide open is required to start then put her wide open. :thumbsup:

Agree just don't leave it WOT for to long when it is cold out, it could be detrimental.

 

[clemsonfor]

You are supposed to start with wide open throttle. No ether. Can we assume you have done all op maint, fresh fuel, fiuel filter, air filter, bled fuel lines?

That is the correct start or cold start procedure but you should be able to crank a healthy engine anywhere between idle and wide open (if it's not 25f outside) not just "sometimes wih the throttle wide open"

 

[normde2001]

That is the correct start or cold start procedure but you should be able to crank a healthy engine anywhere between idle and wide open (if it's not 25f outside) not just "sometimes wih the throttle wide open"

That's just the easiest "problem" to fix:thumbsup:

 

[California]

First time ever, the YM240 wouldn't start.

I don't recall I've run it since October. Temperature 45 (probably colder in the barn) after 33 degrees overnight. Battery voltage 12.36 after the first round of cranking. Lots of Thermostart pre-heat then cranked at full throttle. It made a cloud of white vapor (fuel that wouldn't ignite) but not a single pop.

I brought out the jump-start battery and let it transfer electricity into the tractor's battery for a few minutes. With both batteries attached it cranked faster and fired after a few revolutions.

I wonder if all that unburned fuel vapor chills the cylinders. Also I don't remember adding my usual Power Service treatment recently. Perhaps PS had helped starting more than I thought. Also I wonder if the Thermostart isn't burning the fuel it releases. The manifold was only very slightly warm.

The YM240 has been flawless in the 15 years I've owned it. Looks like it's time for some troubleshooting. I think this is a slow-cranking issue, so I'll check the battery, battery cables, Thermostart. The starter should be good, it was new in about 2005, and compression seems same as ever. What else to check?

 

[normde2001]

Your 12.6 V battery requires AT LEAST 12.5 V to start. What was it before you tried cranking at WOT? How old is your battery and is it charging/holding a charge?

 

[California]

I wish I had measured the battery before cranking. I'm used to firing on the first TDC so I didn't expect trouble.

The battery is several years old, possibly 10. I had charged it up from 12.4 to 12.6 a few weeks ago.

If this rain ever stops I'll go see what it measures now. Yesterday it was sunny so I ran the backhoe 1.5 hours digging out stumps. That should have charged it back to 12.6 but we'll see if I need to put on the charger, or replace it if it loses too much voltage from a short cranking session.

 

[careyo63]

Same thing as on the VN. Thread. Gary Fowlers Would not start either. Just below 55 deg.. No Thermal working. Mine wasn't wanting to start but did @ 45deg. no Thermal. But I didn't mention that I did put the Battery on the Charger for about 30-45Min. I think I seen 12.69.. Low battery and no Thermal would do it. At least I had a full charge and probably the only reason it started first time.

 

[normde2001]

I wish I had measured the battery before cranking. I'm used to firing on the first TDC so I didn't expect trouble.

The battery is several years old, possibly 10. I had charged it up from 12.4 to 12.6 a few weeks ago.

If this rain ever stops I'll go see what it measures now. Yesterday it was sunny so I ran the backhoe 1.5 hours digging out stumps. That should have charged it back to 12.6 but we'll see if I need to put on the charger, or replace it if it loses too much voltage from a short cranking session.

12.6 v is bare minimum. Charge to 13.2 and let sit, disconnected. Should remain above 12.75 v, virtually forever, or bad battery.