LS or Massey

[TSO]

AGCO=the MTD of farm equipment.

This is a silly ignorant comment....

I have owned 2 LS machines and 2 Iseki-built Massey machines, like the one you are considering. (Iseki mfg in Japan makes all of the Compact and Sub-Compact units, and some of the utility machines, has for a long time).

LS makes good, quality units for the price point. Massey (particularly Iseki) makes excellent quality units for a higher price point. Think of LS as Hyundai (actually there are some real connections to LS origins to Hyundai), and Iseki as Toyota/Lexus.

Both will get you there, but the Iseki machine is more refined. I use my Massey 1648 (past) & 1652 (present) machines commercially for my Landscape Company and they are excellent workhorses. The ONLY issue I ever had in a combined 1500 hours of use was a small metal hydraulic return line developed a hairline crack. It was under $30 if I remember correctly, and took about 5 mins to fix.

I know money is a point of consideration, but if you're considering these machines for comparison you should compare the 1749 so you get the DL135 loader.

I owned that comparable LS loader in the past (on 2 different machines) and it is definitely NOT as strong in real life use as the comparable Massey loader. I did real world lifting comparisons with both machines with hydraulic pressures tested, and the comparable Massey loader (mine is the older version loader DL130) lifted about 20% more weight on pallet forks than the LS loader, PLUS it has a much higher lift height, which results in 20+" more "dump clearance" which is important for making brush piles, piling dirt high, loading trucks, etc.

Best of luck with your purchase.

Here's my old thread with height comparison: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/302858-pics-i-dream-day-when.html

 

[Bigpuddie]

AGCO=the MTD of farm equipment.

You clearly dont know what you are talking about. Are you familiar with Fendt tractors?- one of the best in the world. How about Challenger? Again...one of the best made. How about Valtra?- again...one of the best, though mostly used in Europe. Massey Ferguson has always built a tank of a tractor. Until about 8 years, they were more primitive, but since AGCO purchased Fendt and Challenger, they have become a world contender. Their commitment to their customers since about 2012 is second to none.

Blanket statements like yours are ridiculous.l, though you are entitled to your opinion. Do your research. I think you may change your opinion.

 

[TSO]

You clearly dont know what you are talking about. Are you familiar with Fendt tractors?- one of the best in the world. How about Challenger? Again...one of the best made. How about Valtra?- again...one of the best, though mostly used in Europe. Massey Ferguson has always built a tank of a tractor. Until about 8 years, they were more primitive, but since AGCO purchased Fendt and Challenger, they have become a world contender. Their commitment to their customers since about 2012 is second to none.

Blanket statements like yours are ridiculous.l, though you are entitled to your opinion. Do your research. I think you may change your opinion.

Calling something the "MTD" of anything is a negative. MTD is known for churning out massive amounts of entry level junk that gets "rebranded" as a myriad of different names and colors, generally available at big box stores. I have never known or heard anyone referring to anything from MTD as quality, or "best in the world.". When you refer to MTD, is it possible you are confusing them with someone else?

AGCO is the opposite, bringing different quality manufacturers into the fold of a larger company. AGCO is certainly not perfect and some people on this forum have had negative experiences with AGCO's customer service...

But Comparing them to MTD is inaccurate at best... And silly and ignorant if the purpose of saying it is intended as an insult.

 

[Bigpuddie]

Calling something the "MTD" of anything is a negative. MTD is known for churning out massive amounts of entry level junk that gets "rebranded" as a myriad of different names and colors, generally available at big box stores. I have never known or heard anyone referring to anything from MTD as quality, or "best in the world.". When you refer to MTD, is it possible you are confusing them with someone else?

AGCO is the opposite, bringing different quality manufacturers into the fold of a larger company. AGCO is certainly not perfect and some people on this forum have had negative experiences with AGCO's customer service...

But Comparing them to MTD is inaccurate at best... And silly and ignorant if the purpose of saying it is intended as an insult.

That was my point. I quoted an above statement. I think AGCO produces world class machines.

 

[TSO]

Ok... I must have missed the earlier post, all I saw was your post claiming AGCO = the MTD of....

 

[nybirdman]

Coming later this week. L4240 with just under 1,000 hours on the clock. The desire was to find something with A/C and a few more horses than the L3200 and preferably without the "earth friendly" Final Tier IV stuff. Was watching for a 38-ish HP tractor so there would be enough power to run the A/C and a 90" RFM.

Kubotas have always been good to me, but I looked at a used Kioti a few weeks back and drove a couple new 38HP Mahindras last week. Then this came along. I can't see anything on it that looks used, and it isn't a repaint / restore job. Using the serial number another dealer confirmed the seller's story that the hydro pump, one of the potential problems on 40 series, was replaced (at 79 hours) and there were no further records of problems.

The cab is very quiet compared with the DIY cab on my L3200. The cloth seat is a plus and it feels more refined in general. The first couple projects will be rear work lights and a cutting / wear edge on the bucket.

Your going to really like that L4240 HSTC,bought mine new in 2009 and now has 1200 hours,been a VERY good machine.Usual farm stuff in the spring/summer and snow plow in the winter.

 

[Tennsawdust]

Hey guys,
I did some tractor shopping yesterday and looked at the Massey Ferguson 1735M and 1740M for the first time.
I got a price on the 1735M cab with loaded tires for $31,500. I got a price on the 1740M Deluxe cab loaded tires for $36,500. What a beautiful cab set up and air ride seat.
I really liked these two tractors. One of my concerns is the FEL lift capacity 19.6" forward of pins is only 1300lbs and breakout force of 2190lbs, does this seem low to you guys? I can get an LS XR4145HC for about $31,500 with a lift capacity of 2700lbs at pins and breakout force of 3800lbs. I know those are different frame size tractors but the LS XR3135 has higher numbers than those two Masseys. It seems like the fit and finish of the Massey's were better, they just felt better but I like the LS also.

Any opinions between the two? If the lift capacity of the Massey's were figured out at the pins, would it be much higher?

Thanks

The Iseke built Masseys are well built, if a little bit on the light side. The LS XR series is a good tractor as well. If you like the dealer I would definitely take a look at the Kioti as well. They are solid machines. I like that they use cast iron axles and steel bodywork where you tend to get aluminum axles and plastic bodywork with some of the brands. In the end it is your money, so you have to decide what you are willing to spend and what is important to you. You won't go wrong with any of the three brands you've mentioned. I strongly encourage you to buy the one that makes you happy.

 

[rScotty]

The Iseke built Masseys are well built, if a little bit on the light side. The LS XR series is a good tractor as well. If you like the dealer I would definitely take a look at the Kioti as well. They are solid machines. I like that they use cast iron axles and steel bodywork where you tend to get aluminum axles and plastic bodywork with some of the brands. In the end it is your money, so you have to decide what you are willing to spend and what is important to you. You won't go wrong with any of the three brands you've mentioned. I strongly encourage you to buy the one that makes you happy.

Aluminum axles? I'm guessing you mean axle housings rather than axles themselves...but that's still a new one on me.

Which brand does that? I haven't seen it anywhere and am trying to figure out why anyone would make something like that.

I'm sure it is possible to make aluminum axle housings that are more rugged than cast iron (actually a cast steel), but I still wonder why would any tractor manufacturer do that? Maybe if I could see one it would make sense. It's almost certainly going to cost more to use light alloys and of course would weigh less.

rScotty

 

[Motorboatin]

Aluminum axles? I'm guessing you mean axle housings rather than axles themselves...but that's still a new one on me.

Which brand does that? I haven't seen it anywhere and am trying to figure out why anyone would make something like that.

I'm sure it is possible to make aluminum axle housings that are more rugged than cast iron (actually a cast steel), but I still wonder why would any tractor manufacturer do that? Maybe if I could see one it would make sense. It's almost certainly going to cost more to use light alloys and of course would weigh less.

rScotty

John Deere and Kubota are two that I know of using aluminum rear ends

Some of the new JD 3 series use aluminum and I know the older 4300 was aluminum. The sub-compact Kubotas also use aluminum

 

[coobie]

AGCO=the MTD of farm equipment.

Not really..LOL Owned a massey 1240 with loader 4X4 great little tractor.My only problem was no dealer support/parts/service in my area back in 2004-2006. Great tractor..

 

[rScotty]

John Deere and Kubota are two that I know of using aluminum rear ends

Some of the new JD 3 series use aluminum and I know the older 4300 was aluminum. The sub-compact Kubotas also use aluminum

I'll have to look next time I see one. Aluminum axles and housings seem unlikely in compact or utility size tractors.
rScotty

 

[Diggin It]

At the homeowner/consumer level, MTD = practical, functional, affordable, disposable. But I'm not sure I'd call them junk. On any level where you need to make money with a tool, that may be a different matter.

 

[daugen]

the fit and finish of my new Chinese built MF 4707 is the equal to or better than the Kubota I traded in on it.
No I would not have bought a tractor built in China without a very good local dealer, who I already had experience with.
Older little MF I own is an Iseki, runs like a top after 20 years. Iseki is a high spec company. Apparently LS is also, as everyone seems
to like their tractors.

Ford builds tiny subcompacts which aren't overly well thought of in car circles, and they also build $100k Lincoln Black Label Navigators, which are very well thought of. And not just because of the price, it's about the spec and engineering.
Agco provides trickle down engineering from some of the finest brands in the world.
Current day Farmalls aren't built in the US either...those days are long over.

and yes, I own a fairly new Cub Cadet riding mower I bought to lend to an elderly friend. Comparing that to my JD X750 is a joke because one costs six times what the other did. But something has to sit out in front of Lowes along with the JD L130's and the Murrays and the other MTD's.
People want a riding mower for a thousand bucks and they get what they pay for. That hasn't changed. In my case I bought the highest spec CC I could find for $2k, with a fabricated deck and a Kawasaki engine, but I bet the mower spindles don't last 500 hours. The JD dealer said they get older versions of my JD garden tractor in with 3000 hours and more on the oem spindles. Just a different spec...

I was very disappointed I didn't have a local LS dealer, wanted to compare their tractor to MF. LS Customer Service is touted to be, per the industry ratings, the best in the industry. But that's in general, you still have to make a decision on the local shop. In my case, the local Kubota dealer had come on hard times and lost their mechanics, could not fix my equipment. You wouldn't think that about Kubota would you?...but it happens, this is still a people business.

I've owned two Japanese tractors, a MF built in India, and now a Chinese built Massey. And of course my Farmall.
Hard to do but today you need to study the tractor and not where it's from.

 

[Diggin It]

LS Customer Service is touted to be, per the industry ratings, the best in the industry.

That seems to be to the dealers. I'm not sure they provide end user level CS at all. I've tried to email them a couple of times and got no reply. I've also seen a few posts here about unhappy dealers dropping the line or at least certain models due to problems with warranty payments.

 

[Turbys_1700]

MTD provides a value to the conusmer in a lower prices alternative. Most folks can't afford the luxuries that many of us on here have. I worked in the furniture industry for many years in manufacturing. Different levels of quality are defined by different by levels of labor, materials, and expertise. A good solid engineered tractor just like anything else can be made anywhere in the world. A badly engineered tractor or anything else can be made anywhere in the world. I've driven and farmed with tractors made in the US, Japan, Germany, India, and now Turkey. To this day all of them have been good. It's all about what you like and where can you get parts and support. The new Masseys are very impressive.

 

[daugen]

MTD provides a value to the consumer in a lower prices alternative.

I agree, well said.
My Cub Cadet has 37 hours on it after two years. Good light duty machine for light duty.
We are all just used to heavy duty.
Hard to imagine a light duty tractor.

So many good options if you have a qualified dealer nearby.
I don't have a trailer or a truck capable of hauling my five ton tractor so my choices were among
who can come pick up and return my tractor for a very small cost.

The air ride seat in my new Massey is exceptionally comfortable. Newer models often have improved ergonomics, quieter cabs, etc.
Made in Georgia John Deere btw was $20k minimum more expensive for comparable equipment. Beautiful tractor but I couldn't afford it.
We all have some kind of cut off we just can't, or shouldn't..., go above. Thankfully I think today there are a whole bunch of similarly excellent tractors out there to choose from.

Massey Ferguson/Agco got in bed with Iseki a long time ago. I see their giant tractors in the service bay of my dealer, sometimes cracked in half which always brings me in for a look. Iseki is, IMHO, comparable to Honda. Engineering driven company, been building small tractors a long time, and now building larger ones. Whereas another similar top quality company, Yanmar, stopped at a certain size tractor, Iseki built larger. Who exactly builds MF's larger tractors I don't know. I do know my three cylinder engine is built by or to a Finnish Sisu spec. No question in my mind the four cylinder Kubota I had before was smoother sounding. But cab sound deadening is better in new MF so net is an improvement.

Diggin it, yes, it's how dealers rate their companies, including parts availability that always is a primary concern.
I don't think there is any consumer rating authority out there other than these blogs.
Google your model number and put problems after it, can be interesting.

It's been mentioned that Agco is a conglomerate owning many tractor brands. Problem is other than Kubota, you really have to ask what tractor is under the label.
Until you get to higher 5 series and above for John Deere. Which are tractors built for the professionals with a price tag to match.

 

[daugen]

LS Tractors - Wikipedia

AGCO - Wikipedia

Massey Ferguson - Wikipedia

Iseki - Wikipedia

Interesting to read that Massey is now making their largest tractors here in the US to compete with US built Deeres.

what we need are higher farm crop prices. I live among the small farmers and not a lot of smiles here.
OP was originally concerned about loader capacity, some loaders you can sacrifice reach of loader and pick up more down low, two different mounting points for loader. But I hear the OP, when I bought my L Kubota I was immediately disappointed in its FEL lift capability and thought to myself, should have bought an M. If I had I still might have it...
I personally don't have a lot of faith in those loader ratings. Turns out my loader is a Quicke apparently and have second means of
confirming ratings. It handles my Long grapple just fine, about twice as fast as prior loader.

You sure don't want a super strong loader on a moderate weight tractor without lots of counterbalance though...

 

[Bigpuddie]

I agree with Daugen. I have a new MF4707. Fit and finish is top shelf. Air seat is as nice as a 200 hp tractor. This thing is built like a tank, weighing 10,000 plus with 936x self leveling loader. It's a global tractor: Norwegian tires, Finnish engine, Italian transmission, US built loader and front axle, French designed cab, and final assembled in China at an AGCO owned and managed plant. I am extremely happy with the design, value, and build quality. It's as nice as tractors costing $25k more in every way.

 

[Trillium Farm]

The MFs made in China still have to meet the MF specs & standards so not a worry.
LS is a good enough tractor, the only problem I see is that the dealers are mainly mom & pop shops with very limited technical/mechanical experience, so OK if nothing goes wrong, but what if/when it does?!

 

[Tennsawdust]

I'll have to look next time I see one. Aluminum axles and housings seem unlikely in compact or utility size tractors.
rScotty

Aluminum axle housings are not that uncommon in compact and subcompact tractors, particularly among the Japanese tractors and those (like some of the John Deeres) using Japanese supplied components. Strength-wise I'm sure they are equal to cast iron (many, many hours are being racked up on aluminum axle housings including in commercial operations), but you do give up some weight. I would imagine the Japanese use them because they are better set-up to cast aluminum than pour cast iron, plus it would require less machining since all but the most critical dimensions could be die-cast to net shape. In total cost, it is probably the less expensive option for them. For my needs I would prefer the extra weight of the cast iron, but if I were dragging it and a truckload of equipment from jobsite to jobsite every day I might not feel the same way.